Universal Service

jimpeel said:
Here is Obama on video in his own words and in his own voice on July 2, 2008 in Colorado Springs, CO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."
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Jim, your quote doesn't contradict what nalani said. I think you're trying to make this into something alarming and scary with Hitler references when there's really nothing scary about youth training for national emergencies.
 
H2O boy said:
good. nice to see you're finally coming around to sensible thought :rofl3:

government education, by your own assertations, is a patent failure. your proposed solution is more government education. now instead of making cheap shot comments, why not explain how thats going to fix the problem. to me it sounds like more spin
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Government education is not a patent failure in fact. Actually the US government run system was first in the world 20 years ago or so.

I think the top ranked country is Finland now. Also government run.
 
spike said:
Government education is not a patent failure in fact. Actually the US government run system was first in the world 20 years ago or so.
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so its not a failure, yet you claim its graduates are woefully behind their contemporaries.

pick one argument and stick with it if possible
 
H2O boy said:
so its not a failure, yet you claim its graduates are woefully behind their contemporaries.
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I said we're lagging behind other countries...which also have government run education. Aplly a little logic and you'll see that it points to the problem being other than the government run part.

If you want to argue against government run you'd have to show that countries without government run education are leading the way. They aren't, so at this point you've got nothing.
 
spike said:
Jim, your quote doesn't contradict what nalani said. I think you're rying to make this into something alarming and scary with Hitler references when there's really nothing scary about youth training for national emergencies.
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I'm not sure he was meaning to contradict or prove a point - I think he was just giving me, and others interested, a link for information :)
 
spike said:
Government education is not a patent failure in fact. Actually the US government run system was first in the world 20 years ago or so.
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Key word "was". How can something that "was first in the world" not be a failure if it has not remained in that esteemed position?
 
jimpeel said:
Key word "was". How can something that "was first in the world" not be a failure if it has not remained in that esteemed position?
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That doesn't even make any sense. The system was 1st 20 years ago, in the meantime better systems have emerged. This doesn't make it a failure, it means that adjustments need to be made to keep up or hopefully regain the lead.
 
spike said:
I said we're lagging behind other countries...which also have government run education. Aplly a little logic and you'll see that it points to the problme being other than the government run part
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OK

Unions

Too soft on the kids

Parental neglect
 
jimpeel said:
Apparently it is not "just [his] own misguided opinion". It seems there was someone else who held that same opinion who just might know a thing or two about the meaning and intent of the Constitution.
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The quote was:

"Assistance to those that need it should come, first & foremost, from the family. That's what families are for. Second & third is private or religious organizations. Government, especially the federal government, is not suited to handle this."

The Constitution does not say that assistance for those in need should come from the family first and then from private or religious organizations at all. That is simply Gonz's opinion.

That would leave a lot of people hung dry. The federal government can certainly be suited to handle it.
 
jimpeel said:
nalani said:
Ok, back to the question ... why is the term of 'welfare' being brought into this when the students/young adults in question will be working for this incentive?
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As I said HERE:


Quote:
In the case of college students doing community service they do not receive any wage during the term of that service. The incentive is not awarded until the terms of that service are met. If a person works 99 hours and fails to complete the required 100 hours, they not only do not receive any wage they also do not receive the incentive. They will have worked for nothing. They will not receive their welfare incentive.
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Jim, the idea that they do not receive a wage for volunteering makes it less like welfare, not more. With welfare you do receive a wage which you do not have to work for.

As Bish said, this is almost opposite of welfare. I think you're really trying to label it welfare to attach a negative connotation to it when it doesn't fit at all.
 
spike said:
I said we're lagging behind other countries...which also have government run education. Aplly a little logic and you'll see that it points to the problem being other than the government run part.

If you want to argue against government run you'd have to show that countries without government run education are leading the way. They aren't, so at this point you've got nothing.
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so in the final anlaysis youre all about handing that over to the government for them to run too like everything else

excuse me while i go wash the shock and amazement off my face

do you believe in doing anything for yourself that doesnt involve hand lotion?
 
I've been helping my god-son prepare some for his drivers test,
and it seems Everything is trying to go "universal".

The first thing that comes to mind anymore when I hear the word is , people
that don't want to assimilate to the "American Way".
 
I can see getting a '50-states' drivers license. Tighten up the rules a bit. That way...if you move from one state to another, you don't have to pay for a new license. Just an address change.
 
H2O boy said:
so in the final anlaysis youre all about handing that over to the government for them to run too like everything else
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Were you unaware that we already have a Department of Education? You should take a little time to read about it and catch up. You'll find that I'm not all about handing it over to the government but that you're going to be shocked and amazed to find out the governent is already currently involved.

I can see with your attempts at insults that you're starting to get a little frustrated that your argument hasn't worked out very well. It's just that the facts all lined up against you.

The countries with the best educated children have government run education. They also tend to have the most competitive economies. That doesn't really leave you much room to debate I suppose.
 
spike said:
The Constitution does not say that assistance for those in need should come from the family first and then from private or religious organizations at all.
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You are absolutely correct.

The Constitution does not address "assistance" at all, therefore, it is not a power granted the federal government.
 
It does have that General Welfare bit.

There's some pretty clear language about torture, warrantless searches, and being held without charges or a trial that you like to ignore though.
 
spike said:
The countries with the best educated children have government run education. They also tend to have the most competitive economies. That doesn't really leave you much room to debate I suppose.
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stop looking at the forest and see a tree. you opined that our students were lagging. i pointed out one reason why. then as soon as you relaized you had contradicted the party line you reversed course. i see nothing to debate personally
 
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