"US attacks Israel's cluster bomb use"

[Gato_Solo]

Really? Wow...and it didn't get more than a news-burp?
Impressive spinning!

Yep. Happened in Waco, TX with David Koresh, and, earlier, with a group called MOVE in Philadelphia. Rosewood, FL and Tulsa, OK also come to mind. I remember those just off the top of my head. Links posted for others...

 

[MrBishop]

Koresh bombed himself tho...and the ATF still got shit for it.
MOVE - A special commission, appointed by then-Mayor Goode concluded that "dropping a bomb on an occupied row house was unconscionable," however no criminal charges were filed. I don't personally remember this one....they don't mention the other 230 people left homseless because of the bomb.
Rosewood...link doesn't work.
Tulsa - Civilians did that? Interesting read....I'll have to go into it deeper.

 

[MrBishop]

Here's the kicker...would you consider any of these the correct behavior?

 

[Gonz]

be great if they all wore badges and were easily identifiable...

The problem, identified. Since they don't, there are cluster munitions all thruough the neighborhoods. It's called war instead of games for a reason. People living in neighborhoods with terrorists (or crack dealers) need to take care of the problem. Otherwise, they problem takes care of them.

 

[catocom]

Here's the kicker...would you consider any of these the correct behavior?

mmmmaybe

 

[Gonz]

Koresh bombed himself tho...and the ATF still got shit for it.

As they should...these idiots were not terrorists & were well within their rights.

On Monday 19 April, the FBI notified the Davidians of the imminent tear gas assault. The Davidians begin shooting shortly after the gas attack began shortly after 6 a.m.

The gas attack continued for several hours, and the armoured vehicles begin smashing holes in the buildings.

At noon, several fires started within the compound. Shortly thereafter, nine Davidians fled the compound.

The FBI continues to maintain that members of the cult started the fires.

 

[MrBishop]

The problem, identified. Since they don't, there are cluster munitions all thruough the neighborhoods. It's called war instead of games for a reason. People living in neighborhoods with terrorists (or crack dealers) need to take care of the problem. Otherwise, they problem takes care of them.

This + This = vigilantism.

So...like I said. The wheat with the chaff. Doesn't matter if the people living in an area knew about possible terrorists in their area or not...they need to die.

 

[Gonz]

This + This = vigilantism.

 

[catocom]

To me, "vigilantism", isn't as bad a thing as it used to be.

 

[MrBishop]

So..how do you propose that they 'take care of the problem'? ...and please remember that we're actually talking about Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Iran etc... where 911 doesn't work, and if it did..they're kinda outgunned and outnumbered.

 

[MrBishop]

In all seriousness, Gonz et al.

You have a large population with a very small percentage that is the problem. How do you get to the real targets without indiscriminately killing off those who have nothing to do about it?

IntOpps (including local tip-offs) matched with small strike groups hitting exact targets violently, gratuitously, and publicly. IMO.

 

[Gato_Solo]

In all seriousness, Gonz et al.

You have a large population with a very small percentage that is the problem. How do you get to the real targets without indiscriminately killing off those who have nothing to do about it?

You already know the answer, and a candlelight vigil singing Kumbaya isn't it...

IntOpps (including local tip-offs) matched with small strike groups hitting exact targets violently, gratuitously, and publicly. IMO.

Which also gets the person who tipped killed in retaliation. One person in 100 with a gun is only a problem for 98 people.

 

[Gonz]

So..how do you propose that they 'take care of the problem'? ...and please remember that we're actually talking about Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Iran etc... where 911 doesn't work, and if it did..they're kinda outgunned and outnumbered.

First & foremost, tell the Congress to knock it off. Then, tell the media & the anti-war protesters to stfu. The ONLY way to beat the United States in an armed conflict it through the inside. The media barrage of how awful we're doing and now, the internet blogs & sites & posts & threads lending credence & support to the enemy. Remember what your momma said...If ya can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Then, change the Rules of Engagement so that our military can stop the enemy instead of following complicated directives.

Had these things been done three years ago, we'd be done today. There also wouldn't be such a problem as Wantsajihadman in Iran. He'd see that the pussyfooting around is done.

 

[chcr]

First & foremost, tell the Congress to knock it off. Then, tell the media & the anti-war protesters to stfu. The ONLY way to beat the United States in an armed conflict it through the inside. The media barrage of how awful we're doing and now, the internet blogs & sites & posts & threads lending credence & support to the enemy. Remember what your momma said...If ya can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Then, change the Rules of Engagement so that our military can stop the enemy instead of following complicated directives.

Had these things been done three years ago, we'd be done today. There also wouldn't be such a problem as Wantsajihadman in Iran. He'd see that the pussyfooting around is done.

You forgot the additional 80,000 or so troops, But the media barrage about how awful we're doing is, I'm very much afraid, reasonable accurate for many of the reasons you state. Unfortunately, few (in office or out, conservative, liberal or somewhere between) have the stomach for "step on their throats until they capitulate" politics.

My mom always said say what you mean.

 

[catocom]

The ONLY way to beat the United States in an armed conflict it through the inside.

and that IS happening even as we type here, and pretty fast too.

Then, change the Rules of Engagement so that our military can stop the enemy instead of following complicated directives.

I just couldn't believe it when I heard it, and am baffled by...
When I heard about the "catch and release" thing.
Makes me wonder what other policies that are in place that are Totally
no good, or even makes any sense to have.

Had these things been done three years ago, we'd be done today. There also wouldn't be such a problem as Wantsajihadman in Iran. He'd see that the pussyfooting around is done.

I also can't understand why the borders haven't been secured YET.

 

[BB]

Remember what your momma said...If ya can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

You heard it here first, folx!

Live by the sword, die by the sword?



Evocative picture Gonz:

I take it that isn't a statue of Bomber Harris?

....


mmm - i think it is fair to say (in a general sense) there is a point for being able to do the job at hand , and if commited to doing the job having the tools, will, and resources to do it well and quickly -

but if you read the original article ( rare for me i know ... ) there is also all the difference between leaving indiscriminate clusta bombs on Sesame street - and the realities of war - or hoping to willy nilly hopefully nab a couple of terrorists.

Dresden was devastating, as was Hiroshima - but it was War. Total war. Right or wrong, was sadly, no longer in any real sense in the equation - although one could argue from many different moral viewpoints -

those were the realities of War, and Total war, and i am not sure reprogressive analysis can ever be all that justifiable - however much we might like it to be.

But, when leaving the area - mass clusta bombs, are proven to be as Cat says - highly indiscriminate -

that's why - even though it is markedly NOT a game - there are International regs on their usage.

Say what you like - it wasn't done for overwhelming military advantage - nor for real Military NEED



best, BB

 

[2minkey]

First & foremost, tell the Congress to knock it off. Then, tell the media & the anti-war protesters to stfu. The ONLY way to beat the United States in an armed conflict it through the inside. The media barrage of how awful we're doing and now, the internet blogs & sites & posts & threads lending credence & support to the enemy. Remember what your momma said...If ya can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

hmmm seems to me the media was used more by bush + co to scare people into thinking we really needed to pour ten bah-fucking-gazillion dollars down the iraqi rathole.

 

[catocom]

mmm - i think it is fair to say (in a general sense) there is a point for being able to do the job at hand , and if commited to doing the job having the tools, will, and resources to do it well and quickly -

those were the realities of War, and Total war, and i am not sure reprogressive analysis can ever be all that justifiable - however much we might like it to be.

Say what you like - it wasn't done for overwhelming military advantage - nor for real Military NEED

There's a saying "all's fair in love and war".
I'm not sure if it was ever true totally, but may have been close at one time.

that's why - even though it is markedly NOT a game - there are International regs on their usage.

regs? you mean from the UN?

 

[Gonz]

You forgot the additional 80,000 or so troops,

I don't think we need more troops. The 21,000 going in now are for politics. We have suffient manpower & weaponry. They need the go ahead to do their job.

hmmm seems to me the media was used more by bush + co to scare people into thinking we really needed to pour ten bah-fucking-gazillion dollars down the iraqi rathole.

Bush & company includes Bill & Hillary? Harry Reid? John Kerry? Ted Kennedy? Virtually every federal politician has, at some point before the Iraq battle began, said exactly what Bush & company said. Within 24 months or so.

Sorry, Iraq had major WMDs. Where are they today?

 

[Gato_Solo]

I don't think we need more troops. The 21,000 going in now are for politics. We have suffient manpower & weaponry. They need the go ahead to do their job.

No. We don't. We didn't then and we don't now. We went in for expediency, and we stayed/are staying for politics. When we do our jobs like we're supposed to, we're called animals, and when we don't we're pussies. We build schools, give out medical care, and provide security for 2/3 of the country, and it gets ignored because there are no dead, burned bodies to show to a shocked audience. The people need to understand that war is not for their personal entertainment, nor is it supposed to be fought for expediency or politics. This isn't a show for the masses, nor is it an FPS to play on their X-Boxes/PS2s.