War...yea or nay...reasoning

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
We can discuss the finer points in any of 50, 70, 100 other threads, I'm looking for you're stance & simplified reasoning to be for or against this war.


Mine:

I've yet to see anyone, Democrat, Republican, Independent, Socialist who, immediately after seeing the eveidence that the public won't see for 75 years or more, thinkit's a bad idea. Some have changed their stance later (political reasoning) but they all look like they've seens a ghost.
 
This one is hard. I'm for war. I just don't think it should be Iraq...pssst, Gonz...what evidence?
 
If I knew that the discussion would be over. :D

An example; think back to the beginning of all this. The Dems were dead set against going to Iraq. They paid a visit to the White House for a "breifing". The resolution passed with Dem support.
 
Put me in the For column. I think the "evidence the public won't see for 75 years" might have been better worded, because it implies that you personally know something most people don't, since you said that "I've yet to see[anyone], after seeing the evidence the public won't see for 75 years.....]"

...but I think I know what you mean...

Clearly the Hussein Regime is a destabilizing force in the region. It is. A lot of folks point to all the nasties that the US govt. has committed.....100+ years ago...as some kind of hypocrisy premise, bad analogy....but the fact is that Hussein is not much different from the other destabilizing forces and countries in the Islamic world of the ME.

What do you people think of Israel in all of this?

I'll say it right now...I'm not a huge fan. There are no doubt a few rabid defenders of Israel....it will be interesting to hear that viewpoint.

MADrin
 
Implied Nat'l Security issue is all I meant.

Not quite rabid Israeli supporter.
 
Against.
1. Not enough evidence.
2. No real threat to America.
3. How many times has our country tried to remake another country in its own image? How many times has it worked.
 
I'm sure Israel has been asked to sit this out so they don't attract would be stander-bys into it on Saddam's side.
 
Put simply i don't think Bush's motives are as pure as he would have us think. This is not to say that i don't like him but i feel that oil is swaying him quite possibly more than even he knows. To top it all off the majority of the world being against the US really doesn't help. I know Saddam has chemical and biological weapons and i firmly believe he's helped terrorists but the possible repercussions of a war at this point and under these circumstances are alarming. I would much prefer the US just keeping this pressure on him than going to war at this point. A few more years of a downward spiraling economy won't kill us.

What do you people think of Israel in all of this?
Click to expand...

Mad that's a very general question maybe you can be a little more specific.
 
I can't really answer this at this point. I know if the shit hits the fan, I'll back our boys. If it's the right thing to do at this point or not is still up in the air for me now.
 
No problemo, Hex...

Do you or do you not believe that Israel desires a peaceful resolution to it's local issues, as well as regionwide harmony....and if you do believe that do you think it acts in such a way to further those goals...

..aside from defense considerations. I do not begrudge them the right to retaliation for certain actions....but overall, do you posit that they are a genuine part of the solution rather than part of the problem...

maybe even take it a step further if you like....

Is Israel merely a stolen nation?

good stuff to bicker about...

MADrin
 
You're all just trying to confuse me now. All this time I've been arguing these points and everyone wanted to kick my ass (not literally, I hope) Now everyone suddenly adopts my views and I'm trying to get myself prepared to support our Armed Forces...I'm gettin dizzy. :dizzy:
 
Do you or do you not believe that Israel desires a peaceful resolution to it's local issues, as well as regionwide harmony
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Absolutely i do believe that Israel desires a peaceful resolution to their regional issues however i think they've been attempting this for decades and have lost faith in the reality of this idea and who can blame them.
Do i think it acts in such a way to further those goals? I think it's clueless how to achieve it's goals which has lead to the likes of Sharon and Netanyahu.
A genuine part of the solution? That depends on what the solution is. I don't think they're solving anything. More realistacally they're in limbo and at a loss for solutions.

Is Israel merely a stolen nation?
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That depends, how long should a people be away from a Nation after being driven out before they no longer have rights to that land?
I know one thing for sure and it's that Palestine is a fictitious nation.
Cannonites maybe but not palestinians.
Anyway, every piece of land has been stolen at one time or another. There's now 250,000,000 trees in Israel. They have blessed the land by Any standards and this includes the Arab population within Israel.
 
Israel is acting in it's best interest. They tried the peace-treaty thing & where'd it get them? They tried only taking care of the specific problem. Where'd it get 'em? Taking out the homes & businesses of the enemies family isn't working out much better but they did have 2 months of relative quiet.

You may want to read this before getting the stolen land thing going:headbang:
 
I dunno Squiggy..I can't apeak for anyone else...but as for me, I'll argue any situation just for giggles.

If someone subscribes to UN legitimacy then I'll argue within that framework....and have done so here.

If you don't subscribe to that I'm happy to argue there as well..and have done so here...

Argument for the sake of argument airs the issues, and it's worthwhile much of the time...

But this thread is , perhaps, better because it generalizes, and asks about the personal standpoint.

I think sometimes people get too focused on the specific case arguments, as with ,say, the UN example....and then pigeon hole posters into a certain category that they may not fall in personally.

I know that YOU aren't a fan of SA....I'm not either. Probably many people here, if you asked then straight out from the beginning, would fall into that camp...but that doesn't make a case argument impossible, even if it's incongruent with an overall view...

you're sharp..you understand all this....

It may surprise you that I hold some pretty radical views on the region...ones which would probably be quite offensive to many many people here because they include as a component unabashed questions concerning Islam. of course there's more to it than that...but in this day and age as soon as one questions a faith they are branded modern day NAZI's and such...

that's all so convenient and politically correct...and such attitudes run rampant on MB's....

I suspect it's not so much an issue here, but I am new, you know......so you'll excuse me while I feel it out.

But as to adopting your views....as far as this writer goes, I simply agree with you on SA....

But there we may vastly diverge...personally my views take the actions an awful lot further....

MADrin
 
I often put out arguments myself that are for the purpose of envoking thought. And I never said to stop at SA. Thats just where I feel we should begin. It would serve to bring ALL of the extremists out and we could finish the job in one fell swoop.
 
Good question Gonz.

I'm against going to war under any circumstances other than the direct defense of the U.S. territory. I find this situation particularly disturbing because it seems to me that lives (Amercian, Iraqi, etc.) are being put at risk over dead dinosaurs. If we truly concerned for liberating the oppressed then why aren't we concerning ourselves with any number of other ruthless regimes? If we are concerned with curbing terrorism then why are we targeting Iraq? When was the last time you heard of an act committed by Iraqi terrorists. You hear about Saudi-born terrorists and other Islamic-born extremists but I've rarely heard of Iraqi terrorists.
My biggest fear is not that we will go to war, my biggest fear is that we are going to war with the wrong people for the wrong reasons. The rest of the world isn't ignorant, they see events just as clearly as we do in the U.S., possibly even more clearly, how can we be expect to be treated by our so-called allies after this is all said and done?
 
Oh yes, Gonz, I've read the lineage and geo-political theories of Israel/Palestine many many times, from dozens of different authors...probably more than you think. I am well versed on the subject.

But it's really a question of what YOU or anyone who cares to take it there thinks..thats why I put it there. I KNOW what I think...I was interested in others opinions....

The standard "Palestine never existed" argument is patently false....and most writers now take a lineage tack which results in much more interesting theories and facts...

...likewise , people who say the Jews exist there simply out of European guilt over the holocaust are woefully misinformed, and miss a great opportunity to discover an important and interesting story of faiths, bloodlines, and politics unrivaled for sheer irony, brutality, and world consequence...

MADrin
 
(hook in mouth):D

The standard "Palestine never existed" argument is patently false
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Even if this were accurate what difference would it make? No sensible person will deny that the palestinians have mearly been a pawn in this game.
If this your opinion do you actually believe that Israel giving up land will solve anything? That's just not realistic at this point in time.
 
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