War

Gato_Solo said:
Read this, and remember it well...
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I've saved it, Thank you.

I don't know if I ever thanked you before Gato, so I'll do it now. I know we don't always see eye to eye on the issues our country is going through, but I think for the most part we respect each others words. I just want you to know that I do appreciate what you have done for my family, my friends and me. I have and always will hold the soldier in the highest regards. Thank you.
 
Gonz said:
Do you realize what an utterly ludicrous statement that is? You'd allow a murderer to walk free because he's not killing anyone atthe moment? You'd allow your sister to remain threatened by a fugitive because he's not currently banging her with mailice? Eric please, you can't be that foolish.
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nope. but some reform. I do not feel most do though. and as I said he isnt hurting anyone at the moment. so if I attack him and he dies I go to prison. If I attack him and injur him he can take me to court and I go to prison on assault. Nowhere did I say I trust him. Just that I will leave him alone as long as he doesnt pull any shit
 
There are plenty of ways to not let him harm you or your loved ones without having to physically assault him.
 
why disheartened? I said my piece and if we want peace do we need to keep killing to obtain it? FIghting for war is like fucking for peace.
 
freako104 said:
why disheartened? I said my piece and if we want peace do we need to keep killing to obtain it? FIghting for war is like fucking for peace.
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Virginity, Eric...virginity...and you are absolutely wrong. Preparing for war (defense) lets everybody know that they cannot just do what they will to you, and yours. If we had been prepared to fight, I doubt 9/11 would've happened, but the US, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, started to slowly dismantle our military. Drawdowns, base closures, and cutbacks ruled the late 1980's until the terrorist attacks. Now we're seeing a slight increase, and people are looking to find ways to increase our number of troops.

Fact...

The only times the US has been successfully attacked has been periods when our military was downsized...
 
Gato_Solo said:
If we had been prepared to fight, I doubt 9/11 would've happened,
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I have some very serious doubts of that particular statement. 9/11 was not a military attack...it did not involve paratroopers, tanks, military jets, missiles etc... and the possible defence by the military requires some amount of advanced notice.
Sure...the military reacted very quickly, grounding passenger jets etc... but even a military at the top of its game could've done little or nothing to prevent 9/11.

Guerilla warfare and terrorist acts are the thorn in the side of the military, as is being shown time and again in Iraq. Despite a strong military presence there, car-bombs, suicide bombers and drive-by assasinations continue nearly unchecked.

I'm not sure who said it but it was probably someone in the secret service protecting the president. Paraphrasing "If someone is willing to assasinate the President and is willing to die for it, he will most likely succeed"

Think of 9/11 in the same way. It was a surprise, the terrorists laid their lives down for it and succeeded. A larger force with more money could not more have stopped those planes from striking the World Trade Towers any more than a boyscout with a handgun.
 
Our intelligence agencies have been cut back too. Cut intel & disallow certain types to participate and suddenly we're under attack.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Virginity, Eric...virginity...and you are absolutely wrong. Preparing for war (defense) lets everybody know that they cannot just do what they will to you, and yours. If we had been prepared to fight, I doubt 9/11 would've happened, but the US, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, started to slowly dismantle our military. Drawdowns, base closures, and cutbacks ruled the late 1980's until the terrorist attacks. Now we're seeing a slight increase, and people are looking to find ways to increase our number of troops.

Fact...

The only times the US has been successfully attacked has been periods when our military was downsized...
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whoops I put the wrong word there sorry. I have to somewhat disagree with the 9/11 statement. It might still have happened it might not have. So Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were when our military was Downsized?
 
Gato_Solo said:
Fact...

The only times the US has been successfully attacked has been periods when our military was downsized...
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That may be true but yer missed a few...

Fact...

Even when downsizing the US still had the the largest military resources in the world.

Fact...

You had, and remain to have, the largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

Fact...

Then and now the US has the most technologically advanced weapons (both for field and mass destruction combat).

Fact....

If terrorism is used, military prowess makes very little difference to them. Take a look at Iraq today.

Fact...

Politacal policies and religion make war. Not men with guns ;)
 
Oz said:
Hmm.....I wonder if that's the same Alan Moore who's comic books I used to read...;)
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That's him :)
0930289234.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


And here's the book that I pulled the quote from. Perhaps one of the best comic-novels to come out of the industry in the past 50+ years. IMHO
 
Oz said:
That may be true but yer missed a few...

Fact...

Even when downsizing the US still had the the largest military resources in the world.
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So China doesn't count? How about North Korea?

Oz said:
Fact...

You had, and remain to have, the largest nuclear arsenal in the world.
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The old Soviet Union had more nukes than the US. Since they broke up, their nukes went to the countries that had the launchers, so now, you can say we have the largest arsenal, but had? Tsk, tsk... ;)

Oz said:
Fact...

Then and now the US has the most technologically advanced weapons (both for field and mass destruction combat).
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Because the Soviet Union had us outnumbered in troops and equipment by an almost 2 to one margin. The Soviets also had a very good, and working, chemical/biological weapons capability, which the US did not have.

Oz said:
Fact....

If terrorism is used, military prowess makes very little difference to them. Take a look at Iraq today.
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It does if we attack the countries that support them. No money, no arms, no arms, no attacks. We both know how long Northern Ireland would've lasted if not for money flowing in from outside, now don't we? ;)

Oz said:
Fact...

Politacal policies and religion make war. Not men with guns ;)
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Okay. You got me on that one...except for one small detail. Religion is also a 'political' organization, and those men with guns? They follow the orders of the citizens of the country they are from.
 
Okay. You got me on that one...except for one small detail. Religion is also a 'political' organization.
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So few people seem to realize that. That's just one reason they should pay taxes, but that's a whole other thread. I disagree though, Oz. There were wars before there were religions or political entities larger than a modestly extended family. We are aggressive animals. I've said so before, but I think this was a necessary part of our evolution.
 
chcr said:
So few people seem to realize that. That's just one reason they should pay taxes, but that's a whole other thread. I disagree though, Oz. There were wars before there were religions or political entities larger than a modestly extended family. We are aggressive animals. I've said so before, but I think this was a necessary part of our evolution.
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Unfortunately, since most religions also do quite a bit of charity work, taxing them is wasted effort. They'd get it all back. :shrug:

Wars are fought for 3 reasons...

1. Because of failed diplomacy
2. Land/resources
3. Women

;)
 
You do understand that some of the other apes also make war? For the same reasons you just rehearsed too (well, 2 and 3, anyway).
 
Gato_solo said:
Okay. You got me on that one...except for one small detail. Religion is also a 'political' organization, and those men with guns? They follow the orders of the citizens of the country they are from.
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Religion isnt supposed to be political. It is supposed to be spiritual.
 
freako104 said:
Religion isnt supposed to be political. It is supposed to be spiritual.
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It is...until you get to the point of 'My God is better than your God". That's when the politicking starts. That's also why I have a problem with some churches...
 
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