Well they banned guns in Britain ...

randomJACKASS said:
One statistic is all that matters, its called recidivism. If our system is so good, go work in it....

Them boys would eat you alive!
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Another important statistic would be how many responses to my RW posts are actual rebuttals, and how many are just derailments of the discussion and meaningless comments.
 
Sorry it just rubs me wrong to get lectures by little college boys who know nothing about life that didn't come from a book or a class.

And what you have no answer to why the recidivism is so high if the system is not so bad?
 
Gato_Solo said:
So how would you solve the problems of crime and poverty...which go hand-in-hand?
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It is a proven fact that regardless of how wealthy criminals become from their enterprise they continue with those enterprises unabated. So if they are no longer in poverty, why do they continue in crime?
 
Yeah I'd expect you to bring up that guy, swirling in a sea of corruption charges. Regardless of whether the charges are true or not he's a real "feel good" hero for you cons. Too bad his recidivism rate is no improvement whatever to his predecessor.

Reference.com said:
In her book on prison policy The Use of Force by Detention Officers, Arizona State University criminal justice professor Marie L. Griffin reported on a 1998 study commissioned by Arpaio to examine recidivism rates based on conditions of confinement. Comparing recidivism rates under Arpaio to those under his predecessor, the study found "there was no significant difference in recidivism observed between those offenders released in 1989-1990 and those released in 1994-1995."
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And all the savings his crappy tent city net are more than nullified by:

Reference.com said:
From 2004 through November 2007, Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts; 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.
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In fact he has cost the taxpayers a pretty penny with no tangible result.

When it comes to crime and punishment, feel good heroes like him are a conservative mainstay. If you can fool the public, who cares what the actual result is?!? I'd suggest you read up on this slimeball before you go using him in an argument again.

I'd also suggest you try and put yourself in the place of one of the many families of people who have died or been injured as a result of cruel and unusual punishment at his hand. But then I have never seen you post anything that suggests you are capable of empathy. I'm sure you are, but I've never seen proof.
 
randomJACKASS said:
I'd also suggest you try and put yourself in the place of one of the many families of people who have died or been injured as a result of cruel and unusual punishment at his hand.
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My brother was one of his guests. He derserved it. Do a crime, get punished.

Arpaio also instituted a program for inmates to study while in jail and to try to recover from drug abuse. Hard Knocks High lays claim as the only approved high school program in any American jail. Another jail program, called ALPHA, is aimed solely at getting inmates away from drug abuse.
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DAMN HIM!!!!

"there was no significant difference in recidivism observed between those offenders released in 1989-1990 and those released in 1994-1995."
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show some numbers
 
Capital punishment has a 0% recidivism rate, and it lowers the prision population if properly applied.
 
Frodo said:
Capital punishment has a 0% recidivism rate, and it lowers the prision population if properly applied.
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Unfortunately, how many times do we hear about innocent people jailed because a judge simply didn't give a shit. Hell, you're new future justice Madame Latina herself is guilty of that crime.
 
Child shoots intruder during home break-in

Child shoots intruder during home break-in
By David Spunt - email

PORT ALLEN, LA (WAFB) - A ten-year-old boy left home alone with his sister used his mother's gun to shoot an intruder in the face, police said.

Late Tuesday, West Baton Rouge Parish sheriff's deputies received a call to a Port Allen apartment complex after several shots rang out from inside one of the apartments. "You are out here trying to work and for someone to come and do that and invade your home is very hard," the children's mother said. She asked to not be identified.

Deputies say Dean Favron and Roderick Porter knocked several times on the apartment door. The two young children, a ten-year-old boy and eight-year-old girl, stood on the other side, terrified. "He told his sister to be quiet and seconds later, they started kicking on the door and finally kicked the door in," said Sheriff Mike Cazes. The two children ran to their mother's bedroom closet.

In a panic, the ten-year-old grabbed his mother's gun for protection. "He did what I told him to do. I never told him to get the gun, but thank God he did," she said. Once the two suspects opened the door, threatening the kids, deputies say the boy fired a bullet into the lip of Roderick Porter. The two men were taken to the hospital by a third suspect, who is a 15-year-old juvenile. Once they got to the hospital, they were later arrested. "It's just hard. I don't understand why they would do that. I know they have little brothers and sisters and they wouldn't want anyone to break into their house," said the mother.

Each man is held on $150,000 bond. The juvenile, was taken to a local detention center. One of the suspects, Dean Favron, just finished serving almost seven years in prison for aggravated assault on a Baton Rouge police officer and two carjacking charges. He was released on June 6th.

Both men will appear before a judge next month
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Source

There's so much wrong with this story it frightens me, but the bold part is what's relevant. Aggravated assault, car jacking, and now home invasion ....that's an animal that want's put down. You'll not convince me that that's reformable.
 
Professur said:
Source

There's so much wrong with this story it frightens me, but the bold part is what's relevant. Aggravated assault, car jacking, and now home invasion ....that's an animal that want's put down. You'll not convince me that that's reformable.
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Granted, many are and deserve harsh treatment, but as it stands even the "reformable" are treated like hopeless dangerous animals and made "un-reformable". What good is that?
 
randomJACKASS said:
Granted, many are and deserve harsh treatment, but as it stands even the "reformable" are treated like hopeless dangerous animals and made "un-reformable". What good is that?
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Well there's the sticker. What good? The question is, what does society owe these guys? I'll agree that society needs a better answer to stop reoffenders, but only so that we don't have to keep dealing with these assholes. But they made the initial choice.

and for the record, I've been doing some reading. For all that the US has a high ratio of incarceration ... their prisons are generally considered cushy by world wide standards. Even high security has benefits unheard of in most of the world. I've frequently heard of criminals taking job training they never could have gotten on the outside. Indeed, one website actually went so far as to suggest that for poor kids, it was a fast, cheap way to learn a trade.
 
randomJACKASS said:
Granted, many are and deserve harsh treatment, but as it stands even the "reformable" are treated like hopeless dangerous animals and made "un-reformable". What good is that?
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Even if crimes such as child molestation, rape, and murder have only a 10% recidivism rate, I would rather have the 9 "reformables" rot in jail for the rest of their lives than let one go that will do it again.
 
Professur said:
Well there's the sticker. What good? The question is, what does society owe these guys? I'll agree that society needs a better answer to stop reoffenders, but only so that we don't have to keep dealing with these assholes. But they made the initial choice.

and for the record, I've been doing some reading. For all that the US has a high ratio of incarceration ... their prisons are generally considered cushy by world wide standards. Even high security has benefits unheard of in most of the world. I've frequently heard of criminals taking job training they never could have gotten on the outside. Indeed, one website actually went so far as to suggest that for poor kids, it was a fast, cheap way to learn a trade.
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Cushy compared to a Turkish prison I'm sure. Did you ever see the HBO series Oz? Granted it's more dramatic and more happens much more often in the series than in life, I know personally two guys who've been inside, one of which could only watch an episode or two because it was to realistic! We as Americans are supposed to be more enlightened, and I would have no problem with any system that reduced the amount of prisoners and sent them back on the streets less likely to re-offend. If you watch Oz and find the kind of things that happen "cushy", you are either "legendary action hero tough", or just an idiot who isn't really paying attention. Granted that is only the maximum security type places, but believe me, if your kid was in there, no matter what they did I think you'd want to see prison reform with a quickness.
 
We as Americans are supposed to be more enlightened
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Where did that notion originate? Franklin (either of 'em)? Hoover? McKinley? LBJ? or some silly liberal?

We Americans want to be left alone to take care of ours, live our life as we see fit & not have to answer to a bunch of regulation loving beauracrats.
 
Gonz said:
Where did that notion originate? Franklin (either of 'em)? Hoover? McKinley? LBJ? or some silly liberal?

We Americans want to be left alone to take care of ours, live our life as we see fit & not have to answer to a bunch of regulation loving beauracrats.
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Well lets just throw out all the laws that are inconvenient for you then....

That notion that we should be held to a higher standard.....You're joking right? Just as I always suspected, the constitution only has meaning when its convenient for you!

The Framers said:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Perhaps you need to study the philosophies of the founding fathers. They were brilliant, forthright, level headed & a touch mad but they were not "enlightened". The Constitution has been larglely ignored for over forty years (perhaps as much as 140 years). When I bring it up, you all decide that its ancient history & needs to be ignored.
 
No Gonz you are one person with one very selfish and narrow view of it. The Framers never intended for one person with such a narrow view to be the one to dictate "how it is". If they had, the president would hold supreme power. No matter how you wish it otherwise, you are one bitter man with a vision, quite unlike the rest of America, who refers to the constitution as if it was your personal credo and you are the foremost expert in its meaning and execution. Neither could be farther from the truth.
 
randomJACKASS said:
I'd bet you a dollar to a hole in a doughnut that drugs and alcohol play a part in crime exponentially higher than poverty though.
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Not necessarily. Drugs and poverty are also linked. The most crime-ridden areas are usually poor and drug-infested.
 
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