What is going on?

2minkey

bootlicker
that's all super duper. the real question is whether all that shit is just remains of previous ambitions or an "active program" immediately before march of 2003. "been buried in the desert for ten years" sounds a lot more like the former. fractional remains of mustard gas? are you kidding? that ain't no viable WMD program.

that you're posting from newsmax says a lot. "gunpowder residue found in shotgun shells outside saddams palace - a threat to all christians!"

certainly saddam would have continued to attempt ways of sleazing around sanctions to acquire WMD type stuff, but was he running a shiny, WMD-producing machine

hey how many f-14s does iran have? how many super cobra attack helicopters? we better watch out for those!
 

Cerise

Well-Known Member
But wait, there's more:

11. and this
Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=5578193

Polish Army Says Iraq Shells Had Deadly Cyclosarin
Fri Jul 2, 2004 01:26 PM ET

By Wojciech Moskwa

WARSAW (Reuters) - Artillery shells found by Polish troops in Iraq definitely contained the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin, the Polish army said on Friday.

The threat of weapons of mass destruction possessed by Saddam Hussein's now toppled regime was the main justification used by Washington to go to war against Iraq last year, but U.S.-led forces have only found small amounts of banned weapons.

Poland said its soldiers found 17 Grad rockets and two mortar shells in late June and said U.S. experts had carried out tests on the weapons.

"Tests conducted showed that there was cyclosarin in the rocket heads," General Marek Dukaczewski, the head of army intelligence, told a news conference.

But the U.S. military said only two of the rockets had tested positive for sarin gas, and another 16 of the rockets found by the Poles had contained no chemical agents. The reason for the discrepancy in numbers was unclear.

12. And let's not forget this:

r14275_34824.jpg


Those are photos of some of the the chemical munitions
Saddam had neither disclosed to the UN nor destroyed.
IN this case (obviously) these worn out mustard gas shells
are (obviously) no longer a threat.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1023481.htm


13. and this
these are photos of Saddam'sURANIUM ENRICHMENT CENTRIFUGE.

story.cemtrifuge.iraq.jpg


It was found by Inspector David Kay on the SECOND DAY of his post war inspections. Under direct orders from Qusay the scientist in charge hid the stuff by digging a deep hole under the rose bush in the private garden behind his house. Blix never found it and never would have.


14 the there was this:
Iraq also maintained more than a hundred bioweapons reference strains


David kay found these within his first week or so.
they had been stored in the refrigerator of the private home of an iraqi weapons scientist. Blix never found it and never would have.

Both of these photos come to us courtesy of David Kay.
Who also testified about them before Congress.

That Saddam's scientists admitted (after the war but not before) to working on a variety of bioweapons including
- Brucella
- Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF),
- ricin and
- aflatoxin.


15. Oh yeah, let's not forget
Kay also testified to finding
" A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research."

The labs were hidden in prisons, mosques even in a secret room of a nuclear research facility. Blix never found them and never would have.


16. and then

Once Saddam was arrested iraqi scientists admitted that they had been working on a rail gun. A rail gun of their design has two possible purposes
- flinging pumpkins really really far
- a firing mechanism for a nuclear weapon.
From David Kay's ACTUAL statement to congress:

"With regard to Iraq's nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons. They have told ISG that Saddam Husayn remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons. These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point. Some indicated a resumption after Iraq was free of sanctions."

Hans Blix never got them to fess up and never would have.


17. and also
The of course there is the radioactive cesium(DIRTY BOMB MATERIAL) that marines found BURIED UNDER A 30 FOOT PILE OF GRAVE at a WEAPONS PLANT in Iraq.
http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/I...inspectors.htm

Cesium would have been legal for Saddam to import under sanctions because it can be used to calibrate chemotherapy machines.
Of course Saddam had stockpiled a VERY large quantity of the stuff
He also
- chose to buy it on the black market,
- smuggle it into the country
- hide it from inspectors
- store it at a WEAPONS PLANT
- and buried it under a 30 ft pile of gravel.

19. and this
The temporary ceasefire to the 1991 gulf war pargaraphs 8-9 clearly states:

"8. . . Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of: (a) All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities; (b) All ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometres and related major parts, and repair and production facilities;

9. Decides, for the implementation of paragraph 8 above, the following:

(a) Iraq shall . . . within forty-five days of the passage of the present resolution, shall develop, and submit to the Council for approval, a plan calling for the . . . The yielding by Iraq of possession to the Special Commission for destruction, removal or rendering harmless, taking into account the requirements of public safety, of all items specified under paragraph 8 (a) above, including items at the additional locations designated by the Special Commission under paragraph 9 (b). . .

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUT...df?OpenElement

Now note (as one of numerous exmples) that Iraq's own claims were that instead of than complying with the ceasefire, it unilaterlly undertook the destruction of 157 r-400 aerial bombs filled with bioolgical weapons by destroying them and burying the rennants at the Al Azziziyah firing range, located approximately 100 km south-east of Baghdad.

Since Saddam claimed 157 were destoyed OBVIOUSLY no more than 157 were ever Built.

For ten years Iraq repeatedly refused to allow UN inspectors access to the site. (In direct violation of the ceaefire). Blix and the other inspectors simply decided that Saddam was right, they complied with Saddam's every wish.

_38243592_bomb150pa.jpg


Finally under threat of war, in February 2003 Saddam agreed that the UN would be allowed to inspect Al Azziziyah. According to Blix's own report:
they found 36 in-tact r-400 bombs and 96 base plates.

Even if 157 were the total number of r-400 bombs Saddam ever produced, he never complied with the ceasefire, he never turned them over to the UN, hid 36 of them intact and has never dislcosed the location of the other 25. This has been disclosed and confirmed by hans blix.
SOURCE: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/...s-2003-580.pdf


Blix himself noted:
"the operation could not verify the total quantities of biological agents destroyed, still less the total quantities produced. . . . "

SOURCE: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/...s-2003-580.pdf

How many r-400 bombs should Saddam's terrorist groups have been allowed to have?

The simple fact is Saddam was hiding alot of bad stuff.

Not enough to take over the US. Not enough to make or break a single battle in a ground war but certainly a threat in the hands of terrorists, like those that Saddam sponsored.

Hussein had no intentions of disarming and every intention of rearming as soon as he could bribe the UN into backing off.
 

markjs

Banned
That "conservative koolaid" y'all drink must have some pretty good drugs in it!

Of course we also all know that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were like Laurel and Hardy and an invasion of the United States was imminent.

:hmm:
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I wonder, did those Russian trucks play C.W. McCalls "Convoy" between Baghdad & Damascus?
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Nice setup...

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 Source

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 Source

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 Source

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 Source

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 Source

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 Source

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 Source

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 Source

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 Source

This one is especially good
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 SOurce

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 Source

Sweeeeet
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 Source

The Klan Wizard speaks
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 Source

A limousine liberal
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 Source

In all fairness, she did vote to empower the President to act in any means necessary
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 Source

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 Source

Those are but a few records of Democrats who (in the words of Al Gore) played on our fears. It was worldwide common knowledge that Saddam had WMDs. Intelligence says the Russians & the Syrians helped exit those weapons.

I suppose that, in the end, you & your liberal cohorts would have preferred a raping, murdering, genocidal tyrant stay in power to ending a regime of brutality. Sorry. Maybe next time.
 

unclehobart

New Member
Of course they lie. Its their job to lie. There hasn't been a time or place in history or a form of government that hasn't lied through its teeth constantly. Their very existence depends upon it. Our collective well-being... or in many cases, enslavement outright counts on it. The trouble is... lying is only half of the game. The other half are spinnable 'half-truths' of the great domestic and international dog and pony show. Its a cold, Machiavellian world out there. Either you are the pig, or you are the swill in the trough. Freedom is an ugly business and noone really wants it anyway.
 

2minkey

bootlicker
The other half are spinnable 'half-truths' of the great domestic and international dog and pony show.

eeeyup. :bgtup:


and now to my comment...

yeah, gonz, there's lotsa folks been saying that stuff. fear works for both sides of the aisle. wasn't it feinstien in that infamous pic with the ak-47 during that anti-gun frenzy?

there's no question that saddam was interested in continuing his WMD stuff. there's also serious doubt as to the condition of his WMD stuffs leading up to march 2003. sure, they find caches of rockets, in shitty, dirty, rusted-out condition. they find traces of nerve agents and mustard gas here or there. what they don't find is things that are particularly viable as weapons. evidence of past efforts, yes. evidence of continuing interest, sure. evidence of viable threat.... not exactly. this makes

"is this the best value for (anti-terrorist) our tax dollars?" a pretty reasonable question.

considering this war will evenutally cost at least $500 billion... eyeah....
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
"They" wanted us out of Saudia Arabia.

Saddam & crew had been thorns in our side, and violating virtually every condition of his surrender since '93.

We need a foothold in the ME.

Kill two birds with one stone.

A great plan.

Haveya noticed? Since The Great Hussein & his $25,000. checks have stopped, so has the frequency of Palestinian murder suicide bombers.
 

markjs

Banned
I suppose that, in the end, you & your liberal cohorts would have preferred a raping, murdering, genocidal tyrant stay in power to ending a regime of brutality. Sorry. Maybe next time.

No but I do think we'd have been more ok with it if it hadn't been based on trumpued up falsfied intelligence report.
 

markjs

Banned
Cerise don't you have an abortion clinic to protest or a ban on gay marriage petition to get signatures for or something? Maybe some books to burn? Perhaps a letter to write to the "liberal media"?
 

markjs

Banned
Don't look now, perhaps someone spoke too soon....

Guardian Unlimited said:
Bush Gets Mounting Reports of Iraq Woes

Friday August 31, 2007 9:01 PM


By ROBERT BURNS and PAULINE JELINEK

Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush huddled with top military leaders about the Iraq war Friday, and Pentagon officials defended efforts to rid the Iraqi national police of sectarian bias and corruption, even as an independent review found the force too tainted to continue.

In an hour and a half meeting with the Joint Chiefs of Staff in a secure Pentagon room dubbed ``the Tank,'' Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney heard from leaders of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines, who are worried about strains that are building on the forces - and on troops' families - as a result of lengthy and repeated tours in Iraq.

Bush did not speak in person after the meeting, but he issued a statement saying he is committed to giving the military ``all it needs to meet the challenges of this new century.'' He also asked lawmakers to reserve judgment about the best next move in Iraq until a report in two weeks from the U.S.'s top general and top diplomat there.

``The stakes in Iraq are too high and the consequences too grave for our security here at home to allow politics to harm the mission of our men and women in uniform,'' the president said in the statement. ``It is my hope that we can put partisanship and politics behind us and commit to a common vision that will provide our troops what they need to succeed and secure our vital national interests in Iraq and around the world.''

In a fresh sign of U.S. frustration with the Iraqi government in Baghdad, a senior U.S. commander said in an Associated Press interview that he is aggravated by the slow pace of action by Iraq's central government to ensure that its security forces are properly led, supplied and equipped on the battlefield.

``I have not seen any improvement really in the year I've been here in that regard,'' said Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, the commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq. He said the Iraqi army is doing ``pretty well'' in fighting the insurgency alongside U.S. troops, but they are not getting sufficient support from Baghdad.

``Progress is slower than it should be inside the (Iraqi) army in particular'' with regard to proper support and direction from national leaders in Baghdad, Mixon said by telephone, adding that the problem lies in a combination of bureaucratic obstacles and sectarian-based decisions about army leadership appointments.

Two independent assessments of the situation in Iraq already have been previewed this week - the latest finding that Iraq's national police are so corrupt and influenced by sectarianism that the corps should be scrapped and replaced with a smaller force.

An independent commission established by Congress to study Iraq's security forces will recommend starting over and reshaping the troubled 25,000-member police organization with a more elite force, a defense official said Friday. He said the report was more positive about progress being made by the Iraqi army.

The report from a commission headed by the former commander of U.S. troops in Europe, retired Gen. James Jones, is to be presented to Congress next week but Gates and other officials were briefed about it this week, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report has not been publicly released.

Asked the Pentagon's view on this, press secretary Geoff Morrell said there already is a program under way to fix the problem of sectarian influence in the national police. He said he had not seen the Jones report.

``It should come as no surprise to anyone that there have been problems with sectarianism within the Iraqi national police force, and we have been working on it along with the Iraqi government for some time to fix that problem,'' Morrell said.

``We believe we now have a program in place which is showing progress, and that is by what we like to call `reblooming' the Iraqi national police force. We are revetting, retraining and then reintroducing forces into the Iraqi national police force,'' he added. ``The intent of the program is to rid the Iraqi national police force of their sectarian biases that have been present from the get-go.''

At least five of the nine police brigades have been taken off duty and sent to be retrained and reintegrated into the force, said Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman. He said the Iraqi government also recently approved a plan to hire some 2,000 internal affairs personnel to investigate problems in the force.

In his remarks to the AP, Mixon said he agrees the Iraqi national police should undergo retraining, adding that their biggest problem is a lack of experienced leadership. Sectarianism had been a problem in one of the two main national police units in his area, but that has since been corrected, he said.

``Certainly some retraining would be beneficial,'' Mixon said, but he did not endorse the idea of scrapping the current force and starting over. ``There is no question that the government of Iraq needs some type of police force that is mobile, that can move into certain areas that require police strengthening for selected periods of time. If that's the way they reshape them I think that would be a good idea.''

The Iraqi National Police, a paramilitary organization run by the Interior Ministry, has long been feared and distrusted by the Iraqi people and is considered the weak link in the Iraqi security system. Many of its early senior officers were veterans of the Badr Brigade, the Iranian-backed Shiite militia formed in Iran from among Shiite refugees who had fled Saddam Hussein's rule.

The national police are separate from the far more numerous local police.

The U.S. has been working to weed out corrupt members, taking whole police units out of service and retraining them, as well as removing a number of commanders.

The report on Iraqi forces follows circulation earlier this week of a draft report by the Government Accountability Office, the auditing arm of Congress that found the Iraqi government has failed to meet political and security goals.

A third report - by the nation's intelligence agencies last week - found there has been some progress, but that violence remains high, the Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help.

Training and equipping an Iraqi Army, police force and border corps is key to handing over responsibility for Iraq's security and bringing U.S. troops home. Commanders have said they hoped to have a 390,000 security forces trained by the end of this year, but that they are not yet capable enough in some areas for the U.S. to reduce its troop levels.

Source.
 

catocom

Well-Known Member
eh, it looks like so called 'leaks' are coming out, and stuff like this, to make
a way out, to start redeploying troops, and give some more time off.

They be getting ready to invade Iran....soon.
We have too, or Israel Will take action soon.
 
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