Who lives ... who dies

jimpeel

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354135,00.html

Government Report Answers Who Lives, Who Dies in Flu Pandemic
Monday, May 05, 2008

Should doctors be allowed to play God?

In the case of a flu pandemic — yes, say government officials in a new report.

Doctors know some patients needing lifesaving care won't get it in a flu pandemic or other disaster. The gut-wrenching dilemma will be deciding who to let die.

Who will die in the event of a pandemic? The very old, seriously hurt, severely burned and those with severe dementia, according to an influential group of physicians.

The group has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated.

The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services.

The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals "so that everybody will be thinking in the same way" when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego and lead writer of the task force report.

The idea is to try to make sure that scarce resources — including ventilators, medicine and doctors and nurses — are used in a uniform, objective way, task force members said.

...

— People older than 85.

— Those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings.

— Severely burned patients older than 60.

— Those with severe mental impairment, which could include advanced Alzheimer's disease.

— Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes.

[more]
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People older than 85.

— Those with severe trauma, which could include critical injuries from car crashes and shootings.

— Severely burned patients older than 60.

— Those with severe mental impairment, which could include advanced Alzheimer's disease.

— Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes.
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Oh, look, socialised medicaine.
 
— Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes.
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A: Who decides where the cutoff point is on blood sugar? Is a reading of 201 too high?

B: Severe chronic disease (I'll assume the words 'disorder' or 'condition' may be substituted). Guess I'm a dead man then huh? Course, Stephen Hawking would have have to go first. Can't have the invalid in the way. Marlee Matlin too. Stevie Wonder.
 
um, isn't this, essentially, the triage concept? sorry folks, if you're physically compromised and unlikely to pull through, little jimmy over there is gonna get the allocation of medicine, because it might save him.

this is not some grand overstepping of governmental bounds, jim. it's rational planning. if you don't like it, perhaps you should arrange for your own care in the event of pandemic?
 
2minkey said:
um, isn't this, essentially, the triage concept? sorry folks, if you're physically compromised and unlikely to pull through, little jimmy over there is gonna get the allocation of medicine, because it might save him.

this is not some grand overstepping of governmental bounds, jim. it's rational planning. if you don't like it, perhaps you should arrange for your own care in the event of pandemic?
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yeeeaaah, and do you think if it's Dicky C. that they'll let him wait?:grinno:

money...now more than ever, money talks.
 
2minkey said:
this is not some grand overstepping of governmental bounds, jim. it's rational planning. if you don't like it, perhaps you should arrange for your own care in the event of pandemic?
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This story, yes. However, that does look like socialized medicine. Can't pay for all those sick folks now can we?

catocom said:
money...now more than ever, money talks.
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Nope, money has always spoken loudest.
 
If it is a pandemic of a virulent flu strain, triage will be messy, but nessecary, if you only have enough medicine to save 25% of the population (Captain trips anyone) you have to have guidelines of who lives, and who dies.

During the Zombie apocolypse, are you gonna let EVERYONE in your fallout shelter? No, you pick and choose.
 
Socialized medicine uses a priority scale.

The thing is that, like 2minkey said, that is pretty much the triage concept that emergency medical care would operate upon in a mass conflag kinda situation. It's nothing new....only in this situation there is no horrible physical catastrophe, it's a flu pandemic.
 
yeah. what she said.

dick cheney AND socialized medicine? those don't go together. silly rabbits!

anyway, in socialized medicine they'd give half-assed care to everyone. like in kanada. this ain't that. at all.

this is nothing more than an attempt at ideological grandstanding where practical matters - such as headshots to zombies and distributing flu medicine and whatnot - are the real issues.
 
2minkey said:
if you don't like it, perhaps you should arrange for your own care in the event of pandemic?
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BINGO!!!

DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING, DING

WE HAVE A WINNAH!!!!
 
paul_valaru said:
Rich people are fatty, you can grill em up good.

Poor people are not as fatty, and are tough, so you cook them low and slow, and get more flavour out of them...

I mean, huh?
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i believe the rate of obesity is higher among poor and lower-middle income folk, at least here in fat america.

and hey, low and slow works good for real fatty cute like short ribs, by the way.

but i wonder, wouldn't you wanna cook the hell out of 'em at 450F, jimpeel style, so as to get rid of all those nasty flu bugs?
 
2minkey said:
i believe the rate of obesity is higher among poor and lower-middle income folk, at least here in fat america.

and hey, low and slow works good for real fatty cute like short ribs, by the way.

but i wonder, wouldn't you wanna cook the hell out of 'em at 450F, jimpeel style, so as to get rid of all those nasty flu bugs?
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I was thinking of jsut making sausages
 
paul_valaru said:
So if you get to pick your own health care only the rich will live?
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Not so. It does mean, however, that those who are willing to take on their own issues will be likely to survive and those whith the resources to help the economy recover will be able to do so.
 
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