Anti-abortionists

drkavnger99

Member
MrBishop said:
May they rest in peace. May Gods glory wash over them. May their souls be returned into the Guff so that they may be reborn and live their lives again.
  • For the non-religious types -- STFU
  • For the religious types/spiritual types etc --- They were loved while they lived. Their lives were mercifully short but touched many. A quick prayer for them please.

AMEN

And on a not much lighter note about abortion (at least the politics of it) there is no proven right or wrong answer except that there is always going to be an exception to the rules. I don't think anyone here thinks abortion as a birth control method is right and I also think that the pro-lifers here on OTC aren't for the extremes either. Just look at it this way if we can agree on this point then we just have the details to fight over :lloyd:
 

Rose

New Member
so how many days were they alive? How much money went into their birth and death? How much heartache did the parents, family, and random others suffer?

:shrug:
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Squiggy said:
Bit of a knee-jerk there, Bish? :confuse3:

Nah...I'm trying to head off all the crap that's likely to come down when anyone gets 'religious' on OTC. This is likely to degrade into some inane arguement about wether God exists or not, church hypocracy or the gay-Bishop.

I'm just trying to put out a message without it being degraded beyond recognition or losing it's intent. A sence of loss for a death.
 

Rose

New Member
a13antichrist said:
Talk about retardation.. sheesh.

Try this scenario - for the pro-lifers.

A baby is diagnosed as having a lung disease that will mean it will die at most two hours after being born.
Given that the baby would never have any life anyway, is abortion here an acceptable course of action, in order to save the mother firstly the pain of child-birth and secondly, and much more importantly, the total emotional destruction of watching her baby die in front of her two hours later?

Yes or No.



Yes, it is acceptable. But I suppose you weren't waiting for me - but for someone who's hardcore pro-life.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
A13- how could a doctor diagnose a child, in utero, with such precision? One knows if a twin fetus has not divided by physical characteristics. They can't say the child/children will die. They play the odds & give a wide timeline. Your doctor is a prognosticator with a magic 8 ball.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
Gonz said:
A13- how could a doctor diagnose a child, in utero, with such precision? One knows if a twin fetus has not divided by physical characteristics. They can't say the child/children will die. They play the odds & give a wide timeline. Your doctor is a prognosticator with a magic 8 ball.

even wiht all our technologies like teh ultrasound?
 

AlphaTroll

New Member
Gonz said:
A13- how could a doctor diagnose a child, in utero, with such precision? One knows if a twin fetus has not divided by physical characteristics. They can't say the child/children will die. They play the odds & give a wide timeline. Your doctor is a prognosticator with a magic 8 ball.

Testing of foetal development and disorders are quite accurate these days with tests like Amniocentesis where the amniotic fluid is tested to ascertain whether or not there are any defects (the fluid is tested as there are foetal cells present in it, so they are able to test these cells by growing them for chromosome analysis - it's usually done in the first 14 - 20 weeks of gestation).

Fetal lung maturity can be accurately detected through this test & it's very important as the lungs may not be mature enough to sustain life once the child is born, i.e. after birth, the infant will develop respiratory distress syndrome from hyaline membrane disease since it did not produce enough surfactant during gestation to sustain lung growth & development. The condition may persist or worsen for two to four days after birth with improvement thereafter. Some infants with severe respiratory distress syndrome will die. IRDS is usually a factor with pre-mature babies as their lungs didn't have enough time to develop to maturity, but it can also occur in children born after normal gestation periods.

There are of course other tests available and some other diseases or disorders than can be accurately diagnosed include Renal Agenesis (Potter's Syndrome): Renal agenesis is the complete absence of the kidneys. The kidneys are the organs that filter the blood of waste products, eliminating them as urine. There are two kidneys in the human under normal circumstances. Absence of the kidney could be unilateral or bilateral. If it is unilateral, it means only one kidney is absent. However, if it is bilateral, it means both kidneys are absent. Unilateral absence of the kidneys is compatible with life whereas bilateral absence of the kidneys is incompatible with life.

Congenital Diaphragmatic Hernia (CDH): The wide, flat muscle that separates the chest and abdominal cavities is called the diaphragm. The diaphragm forms when a fetus is at 8 weeks' gestation. When it does not form completely, a defect, called a congenital diaphragmatic hernia (CDH), is created. This is a hole in the muscle between the chest and the abdomen. The majority of CDHs occur on the left side. The hole allows the contents of the abdomen, (stomach, intestine, liver, spleen, and kidneys) to go up into the fetal chest. The herniation of these abdominal organs into the chest occupies that space and prevents the lungs from growing to normal size. This is called pulmonary hypoplasia. The growth of both lungs can be affected. While in the uterus, a fetus does not need its lungs to breathe, because the placenta performs this function. However, if the lungs are too small after the baby is born, the baby will not be able to provide itself with enough oxygen to survive. Approximately 60% of fetuses with CDH do not survive after birth because their lungs are too small.

So no, in most cases they do not play the odds, they can say with reasonable certainty that the child will not live longer than a few hours. Whether or not the mother chooses to abort is up to her, but her choice would most certainly be justified in terms of the magnitude of the problem she faces.
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Said it before...here it goes again.

Many of the foetuses that have a good chance of dying shortly after birth survive until birth mostly because of medical intervention. Without medical intervention, the foetus would have auto-aborted or miscarried, or in the case of this couple's babies, would not have been able to have been born vaginally anyway. The parents and their doctors chose to intervene in order to allow these children to be born, knowing full-well that they would be siamese twins and would most likely not live very long. They chose selfishly to allow these babies to be born, baptised and die.

Can anyone tell me how this is any different from aborting the foetuses prior to birth?
They were either born to die or died before they were born. End result...they're still dead. There's still pain, both emotional and physical involved in both cases.

How would aborting the foetuses made it any worst?
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
They died a "natural" death as opposed to a medical homicide.

Either way they are dead. :(
 
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