Believing the lie, drink that koolaid!
- Thread starter randomJACKASS
- Start date
Professur
Well-Known Member
Banks screwed people over. People formed credit unions and told the banks to go fuck themselves. No reason that can't happen again with co-op insurance. Oh, wait ....
http://www.co-opinsurance.com/
http://www.kofc.org/un/eb/en/insurance/index.html
It's pretty easy to find insurance that's not going to screw you over. The difference is, they cost more. People gravitate to the lowest premiums only to discover that there's a very good reason why they're the lowest.
spike
New Member
It's been proven to be successful. Much better plan than letting people who are only trying to make money do it.
Professur
Well-Known Member
ROFL. Man, you had me going for a minute.
And what, exactly, do you think the gov't is doing?
spike
New Member
I don't know why stating the facts is killing you. Maybe you'd rather stick with the fantasy. The US is ranked 37th. and 24th in life expectancy.
You know, I'm going through this shit right now. GF has health problems that are keeping her from working, can't get a private plan because of her pre-existing conditions and we're looking at $1,300/month for ONE of her medications. She needs a public option just like so many other people in this country.
You can talk about your taxation rate but maybe just maybe your employers can pay you higher wages because they don't have to supply healthcare? Oversimplifying ain't going to get you anywhere logical.
You know, I'm going through this shit right now. GF has health problems that are keeping her from working, can't get a private plan because of her pre-existing conditions and we're looking at $1,300/month for ONE of her medications. She needs a public option just like so many other people in this country.
You can talk about your taxation rate but maybe just maybe your employers can pay you higher wages because they don't have to supply healthcare? Oversimplifying ain't going to get you anywhere logical.
Professur
Well-Known Member
No, what she wants is for others to pay most of her cost for her. That's what medicare is. Insurance is insurance. You can't expect insurance to pay for an accident you had on your car before the policy was issued. You can't insure something once it's past .. that's the nature of insurance. Maybe the details in your neck of the woods are different, but up here, you still need private insurance for many medical conditions. And that private insurance ... usually a group insurance through the work, CANNOT be cancelled just because you no longer work, if a claim was filed initially while you were still covered. If she only went looking for insurance after she needed it ...
The other half of what you're evidently looking for (and correct me if I'm wrong) is price regulation and control. Well, you'll certainly get that under medicare ... 'cept that you'll suddenly have less people willing to spend the time, money and effort to become doctors. You'll also have a sight less medical equipment available. Bish, you'll probably know for sure better than me, but about 5 years back, there were only 5 MRI machines in the Montreal area. Plattsburg, a tiny town just south of our border in NY, ... had 3, with less than a tenth of the population ... and no waiting list. I know for a fact that the wait for a friend who's got colon issues was over 3 months. She needed scans every 6 months, and had to make her next appointment before she left after the last one to have any hope of getting a reasonable booking time. Any rescheduling could mean months later. If you think that's better for everyone just to benefit your GF ......
spike
New Member
Ah, that's nice. Her insurance was cancelled precisely because she could no longer work. Her coverage lasted for awhile but now it is gone. It really should have nothing to do with work. Now that she can't work she can't stay covered.
That is crap. These other systems have plenty of doctors and equipment and reasonable wait times. This has been covered here recently. You want to focus on MRI machines in Montreal or should we look at some sort of broader perspective.
Holy crap, a 3 month wait for an MRI?! Shit my GF has to schedule office visits for her heart doctor farther ahead than that. Any rescheduling can mean months later.
A public plan would be better for everyone, not just my GF.
Inkara1
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that he was rolling in cash from this job he's doing so well in (although he never tells us what this job is) and that $1,300 a month would be no problem.
I was also under the impression that she could apply for Medi-Cal, seeing as she can't work and thus has no income, and that she's not married, meaning all the money Spike is rolling in in his mystery job is his own, not hers. I do believe that would be a "public option."
I was also under the impression that she could apply for Medi-Cal, seeing as she can't work and thus has no income, and that she's not married, meaning all the money Spike is rolling in in his mystery job is his own, not hers. I do believe that would be a "public option."
Professur
Well-Known Member
Spike, I 'could' discuss public healthcare in other places, but since neither you nor I deal with them on a daily basis, we'd be using hearsay and 'statistics' and opinion pieces, and we've long since seen where that goes .... nowhere. I offer you honest stats and facts based on events, anecdotes and my personal experience that i can personally confirm, from the system that your gov't keeps citing as their model. If that's not good enough, you just go ahead and drink your own kool-aid. But given the state of the economy in your state, I'd think you of all people would realize that giving them even more control of your money leaps past insanity and borders suicidal.
spike
New Member
I do make pretty a pretty good income and I can pay for her meds. Keep in mind though I quoted the price for one of them. She has to take 7 or 8.
All that is beside the point though. If we were low income or she was on her own then what?
She's got Medicare which covers doctors visits and hospitalization but is not covering her meds. I'll see if Medi-Cal is any different. However that really can't be considered a "public option" at all because there are strict requirements.
If you work part time, do contracting, have a small business, work out of your home...AND have a pre-existing condition you can be in a position easily where you can't buy insurance and don't qualify for Medi.
In fact as I think I've discussed before my GF would actually like to get a low stress part time job but if she starts getting an income she could lose her Medicare. This fucked up system is actually keeping her from working. Total bullshit.
A "public option" where you can't get denied coverage or dropped as long as you pay your premium would be a good step for many many American's health.
Inkara1
Well-Known Member
So are you stumping for a system where the only thing different than now is that the government administers it but you still have to pay a bunch of money each month (in addition to co-pays at the doctor's office, pharmacy, etc.), but the government won't decline coverage to anyone? What about those that are too poor to afford the premiums?
Or are you stumping for a system in which no one pays premiums and instead it's funded through tax dollars?
Or are you stumping for a system in which no one pays premiums and instead it's funded through tax dollars?
spike
New Member
Cool, I replied with some personal experience that clearly illustrates how broken our system is as well as facts showing the overall picture. I'm not sure that the Canadian model is what we should be shooting for as Canada only ranked higher by 7 positions. I'd prefer to aim higher.
No Prof, I'm looking at the overall picture and facts. You're ignoring the facts in favor of the kool aid.
The state of the economy in my state? Thats' what you want to base it off? Shit the economy is bad all over. Some mighty big insurance companies were going belly up. Use that logic and there's no way in hell you'd want to give control of your money to an insurance company. But hey, let's keep this rational.
spike
New Member
I would prefer the latter but the former would be an excellent step and I think a fair compromise. Those that are too poor to afford the premiums could still get Medicare etc.
Honestly you have to admit there's a huge problem with a system where my GF can't buy insurance and can't possibly take a chance working because she would lose her Medicare and the Medicare doesn't cover her prescriptions. Right?
As far as I'm concerned when someone wants to work but is forcibly prevented there's a huge problem.
randomJACKASS
Banned
OMG! Higher taxes for the rich! That means they will have to pay for poor people!
The thing nobody ever seems to consider is, that if the poor have access to medical care they otherwise could not afford, and the hospitals and doctors and technicians got paid, instead of all the uncompensated work of public health hospitals and ERs, theoretically it should actually save them some money in terms of reduced costs (except that insurance companies greed is unparalleled and it would need some "regulation"). These poor people might not rack up ridiculous debt for health care that they don't pay, then it goes to collection and destroys their credit, and just possibly they may be able to afford more things which would stimulate the economy and put the money back in the rich fucker's pockets! They also might not end up as sick if they could access doctors for checkups more often and not have to break the bank on prescriptions they have to have but can barely afford! Again they would have more money to pump into the economy!
Naw! that could never work to anyone's advantage! What the hell was I thinking?!?
The thing nobody ever seems to consider is, that if the poor have access to medical care they otherwise could not afford, and the hospitals and doctors and technicians got paid, instead of all the uncompensated work of public health hospitals and ERs, theoretically it should actually save them some money in terms of reduced costs (except that insurance companies greed is unparalleled and it would need some "regulation"). These poor people might not rack up ridiculous debt for health care that they don't pay, then it goes to collection and destroys their credit, and just possibly they may be able to afford more things which would stimulate the economy and put the money back in the rich fucker's pockets! They also might not end up as sick if they could access doctors for checkups more often and not have to break the bank on prescriptions they have to have but can barely afford! Again they would have more money to pump into the economy!
Naw! that could never work to anyone's advantage! What the hell was I thinking?!?
jimpeel
Well-Known Member
The thing that I cannot understand is how people want to turn their health care decisions over to the same people who have bankrupted social security; who have mismanaged the corruption and fraud laced Medicare; who gave us ConRail and AmTrak; who lost the Vietnam war; who conceived of the failure of the Great Society; who have failed in the war on drugs; who bankrupted the boating and aircraft industries with the luxury tax; and who actually believe that they can defy the laws of physics.
How stupid can the electorate get?
How stupid can the electorate get?