Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says Americans

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

It was clearly understood and reaffirmed that the First Amendment would not allow a state religion.

"[T]he clause of the Constitution which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians and Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes and they believe that any portion of power confided to me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly".

Source: Jefferson, Writings, Vol. III, p. 441, to Benjamin Rush on September 23, 1800.

It was not the First Amendment that Jefferson believed "had given..the clergy..hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity." It was actually "the successful experiment made under the prevalence of [the delusion into which the X.Y.Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people" that Jefferson believed had given the clergy hope of establishing Christianity by law.

The "Liars For Christ" have resorted to doctoring Jefferson's famous "Eternal Hostility" letter to Benjamin Rush to fabricate support for their silly "No National Religion" interpretation of the establishment clause. Presented below are the words that Jefferson actually wrote in his letter to Mr. Rush:

I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X.Y.Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro' the U.S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.​

PS: "The successful experiment" made on the First Amendment was a reference to the four Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, which pissed off a lot of Americans, and probably, along with President John Adams meddling in religion, won the 1800 election for Mr. Jefferson.

 

[Gonz]

irritabile vatum

 

[Gonz]

Whammer Jammer? Is that you Fred?

You've had this argument for nearly a year, elsewhere. Weren't the ISI students enough?

Before we continue, I'm curious...just what is your point in this anti-Christian crusade?

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

just what is your point in this anti-Christian crusade?

Most of the founders probably believed that the Constitutional Principle of Separation of Religion and Civil Government was a Christian ordinance. For example, James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution" considered it to be a "just" and "truly Xn [Christian] principle", as is evidenced by the following excerpt from his "Detached Memoranda."

The danger of silent accumulations & encroachments by Ecclesiastical Bodies have not sufficiently engaged attention in the U. S. They have the noble merit of first unshackling the conscience from persecuting laws, and of establishing among religious Sects a legal equality. If some of the States have not embraced this just and this truly Xn principle in its proper latitude, all of them present examples by which the most enlightened States of the old world may be instructed; and there is one State at least, Virginia, where religious liberty is placed on its true foundation and is defined in its full latitude. The general principle is contained in her declaration of rights, prefixed to her Constitution: but it is unfolded and defined, in its precise extent, in the act of the Legislature, usually named the Religious Bill, which passed into a law in the year 1786. Here the separation between the authority of human laws, and the natural rights of Man excepted from the grant on which all political authority is founded, is traced as distinctly as words can admit, and the limits to this authority established with as much solemnity as the forms of legislation can express. The law has the further advantage of having been the result of a formal appeal to the sense of the Community and a deliberate sanction of a vast majority, comprizing every sect of Christians in the State. This act is a true standard of Religious liberty: its principle the great barrier agst usurpations on the rights of conscience. As long as it is respected & no longer, these will be safe. Every provision for them short of this principle, will be found to leave crevices at least thro' which bigotry may introduce persecution; a monster, that feeding & thriving on its own venom, gradually swells to a size and strength overwhelming all laws divine & human.

​

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

Amendments to the Constitution Calculated to Deceive
​

You will find our Amendments to the Constitution calculated merely to amuse, or rather to deceive.

--U. S. Representative Thomas Tudor Tucker to St. George Tucker, 2 October 1789, Roberts Autograph Collection, Haverford College, Haverford, Pennsylvania.

also​

--CREATING THE BILL OF RIGHTS. The Documentary Record from the First Federal Congress, Helen E. Veit, Kenneth R. Bowling, Charlene Bangs, Bickford, eds. The John Hopkins University Press, Baltimore & London, (1991), pp 300)

 

[Gotholic]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

It was not the First Amendment that Jefferson believed "had given..the clergy..hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity." It was actually "the successful experiment made under the prevalence of [the delusion into which the X.Y.Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people" that Jefferson believed had given the clergy hope of establishing Christianity by law.

The "Liars For Christ" have resorted to doctoring Jefferson's famous "Eternal Hostility" letter to Benjamin Rush to fabricate support for their silly "No National Religion" interpretation of the establishment clause. Presented below are the words that Jefferson actually wrote in his letter to Mr. Rush:

I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it, that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it would reconcile the genus irritabile vatum who are all in arms against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be softened. The delusion into which the X.Y.Z. plot shewed it possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro' the U.S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison, &c., which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison, for they are men of truth.​

PS: "The successful experiment" made on the First Amendment was a reference to the four Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, which pissed off a lot of Americans, and probably, along with President John Adams meddling in religion, won the 1800 election for Mr. Jefferson.

It is clearly talking about the First Amendment that some people thought they can form a state religion through it, which Jefferson was against.

Also, consider this:

“No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example.”

Source: See the records recently reprinted by James Hutson, Chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (Washington, D. C.: Library of Congress, 1998), p.96, quoting from a handwritten history in possession of the Library of Congress, “Washington Parish, Washington City,” by Rev. Ethan Allen.

VARIOUS FACTS ABOUT THOMAS JEFFERSON

• Jefferson urged local governments to make land available specifically for Christian purposes. Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Bishop Carroll on September 3, 1801 (in the Library of Congress, #19966).

• In an 1803 federal Indian treaty, Jefferson willingly agreed to provide $300 to “assist the said Kaskaskia tribe in the erection of a church” and to provide “annually for seven years $100 towards the support of a Catholic priest.” He also signed three separate acts setting aside government lands for the sole use of religious groups and setting aside government lands so that Moravian missionaries might be assisted in “promoting Christianity.” Source: American State Papers, Walter Lowrie and Matthew St. Claire Clarke, editors (Washington, D. C.: Gales and Seaton, 1832), Vol. IV, p. 687; see also Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U. S. 38, at 103 (1985), Rehnquist, J. (dissenting); see also, The Public Statutes at Large of the United States of America, Richard Peters, editor (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1846), Vol. VII, p. 79, Article III, “A Treaty Between the United States and the Kaskaskia Tribe of Indians,” December 23, 1803; Vol. VII, p. 88, Article IV, “Treaty with the Wyandots, etc.,” 1805; Vol. VII, p. 102, Article II, “Treaty with the Cherokees,” 1806.

• When Washington D. C. became the national capital in 1800, Congress voted that the Capitol building would also serve as a church building. Source: Debates and Proceedings of the Congress of the United States (Washington: Gales and Seaton, 1853), Sixth Congress, p. 797, December 4, 1800.

• President Jefferson chose to attend church each Sunday at the Capitol. Source: See the records recently reprinted by James Hutson, Chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (Washington, D. C.: Library of Congress, 1998), p. 84.

• Jefferson even provided the service with paid government musicians to assist in its worship. Source: Id. at 89.

• Jefferson also began similar Christian services in his own Executive Branch, both at the Treasury Building and at the War Office. Source: Id. at 89; see also John Quincy Adams, Memoirs of John Quincy Adams, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott & Co., 1874), Vol. I, p. 265, October 23, 1803.

• Jefferson praised the use of a local courthouse as a meeting place for Christian services. Source: Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XV, p. 404, to Dr. Thomas Cooper on November 2, 1822.

• Jefferson assured a Christian religious school that it would receive “the patronage of the government”. Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to the Nuns of the Order of St. Ursula at New Orleans on May 15, 1804, original in possession of the New Orleans Parish.

• Jefferson proposed that the Great Seal of the United States depict a story from the Bible and include the word “God” in its motto. Source: Thomas Jefferson, The Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Julian P. Boyd, editor (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1950), Vol. I, pp. 494-497, from “Report on a Seal for the United States, with Related Papers,” August 20, 1776; See also this article.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

The Propositions... are only calculated to amuse​

We have been for some time past and still are upon the boundless field of. amendments, and whether we shall bring any thing to issue or not is uncertain, for the opinions are almost as various as there are members, a few antis are perplexing the House and taking up their precious moments in propositions which are of such an inadmissable a nature as invariably to meet a rejection which they so justly merit, they say the propositions reported by the committee of eleven are only calculated to amuse without materialy affecting those parts of the Constitution which were particularly objectionable and therefore unavailing--its true they do not answer their unwarrantable purposes of weakening the constitution which they are aiming at, but I presume they go as far cowards quieting the honest part of the dissatisfied, as any friend of an energetic national government can go. I am sorry the subject has been taken up at this time since its likely to be of so long a continuance. the reasons urged for it were that a few simple amendments would probably give general satisfaction and accelerate the adoption of the Constitution by the States of N. Carolina and R. Island. The fact is it has always lain on my mind, and what I sincerely believe is founded in truth is, that so far from the State Governments being in hazard from the National Government, the danger is wholy on the other side, and the latter wants an acquisition of strength rather than a diminution.

​

--Benjamin Goodhue to Michael Hedge, 20 August 1789, Eben F. Stone Papers, Essex Institute, Salem, Massachusetts.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

By comparing the Senate amendments with [those] from below by carefully attending to the m[atter] the former will appear well calculated to enfeeble [and] produce ambiguity
​

[I have) since waited to see the issue of the proposed amendts. to the Constitution, that I might give you the most [exact] account of that business. As they came from the H. of R. they were very far short of the wishes of our Convention, but as they are returned by the Senate they are certainly much weakened. You may be assured that nothing on my part was left undone to prevent this, and every possible effort was used to give success to all the Amendments proposed by our Country--We might as well have attempted to move Mount Atlas upon our shoulders--In fact, the idea of subsequent Amendments was delusion altogether, and so intended by the greater part of those who arrogated to themselves the name of Federalists. . .

. . . The preamble to the Amendments is realy curious--A careless reader would be apt to suppose that the amendments desired by the States had been graciously granted. But when the thing done is compared with that desired, nothing can be more unlike.

By comparing the Senate amendments with [those] from below by carefully attending to the m[atter] the former will appear well calculated to enfeeble [and] produce ambiguity--for instance--Rights res[erved] to the States or the People--The people here is evidently designed fo[r the] People of the United Slates, not of the Individual States [page torn] the former is the Constitutional idea of the people--We the People &c. It was affirmed the Rights reserved by the States bills of rights did not belong to the States--I observed that then they belonged to the people of the States, but that this mode of expressing was evidently calculated to give the Residuum to the people of the U. Stares, which was the Constitutional language, and to deny it to the people of the Indiv. State--At least that it left room for cavil & false construction--They would not insert after people thereof--altho it was moved.​

Source: Richard Henry Lee to Patrick Henry, 14 September 1789, Patrick Henry Papers, DLC. Words in brackets are taken from historian Charles Campbell's pre-Civil War transcript in the Hugh Plait Grigsby Papers, Virginia Historical Society.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

It is clearly talking about the First Amendment that some people thought they can form a state religion through it...

It was the "delusion of the People" and "the violation of the right of free speech" (The four Alien and Sedition Acts of 1789) which gave the clergy hope of establishing Christianity by law.

...which Jefferson was against.

First, it makes no difference what Jefferson believed the First Amendment meant.

The first and fundamental rule in the interpretation of all instruments is, to construe them according to the sense of the terms (not the words of Thomas Jefferson)

--Justice Joseph Story
​

Second, Thomas Jefferson held that

"religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god" and "he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship" and "that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions...convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."​

--Letter to the Danbury Baptists​

In other words, civil government has no legitimate authority over the people's sentiments regarding "Trust In God"; whether the people are "under God", when, where or what the people should pray; or what God should be placed before the others, etc. That is why in Jefferson's day, there was no "In God We Trust" on the nation's coins; no "under God" in a oath of allegiance to the Flag; no prayers written by the government and urged upon the people by the civil magistrate; no religious commandments recommended to the people by the federal government; and no executive religious recommendations in 17 of the first 25 years of the republic and none whatsoever in the second 25 years under the U. S. Constitution.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

“No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example.”

Source: See the records recently reprinted by James Hutson, Chief of the Manuscript Division of the Library of Congress. Religion and the Founding of the American Republic (Washington, D. C.: Library of Congress, 1998), p.96, quoting from a handwritten history in possession of the Library of Congress, “Washington Parish, Washington City,” by Rev. Ethan Allen.

Are you aware that you are relying on fifth hand hearsay; and do you even care that Jefferson probably never said it.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

Jefferson urged local governments to make land available specifically for Christian purposes. Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Bishop Carroll on September 3, 1801 (in the Library of Congress, #19966).

There is no such letter. Prove I am wrong and that you and David Barton are not "Liars For Jesus", by posting the letter here for us to read.

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

In an 1803 federal Indian treaty, Jefferson willingly agreed to provide $300 to “assist the said Kaskaskia tribe in the erection of a church” and to provide “annually for seven years $100 towards the support of a Catholic priest.”

The "Liars For Jesus" often cite the 1803 "Treaty With The Kaskasia" to support their view that the Constitution does not embody the Christian principle of no cognizance of religion by civil government. The Liars claim, or at least imply, that the reason for the payments to the Kaskaskia were to support religion.

The true purpose of the payments to the Indians were "full and ample compensation for the relinquishment (of "the extensive tract of country") made to the United States in the first article."

TREATY WITH THE KASKASKIA, 1803.

Aug. 13, 1803. | 7 Stat., 78. | Proclamation, Dec. 23, 1803.

A treaty between the United States of America and the Kaskaskia Tribe of Indians.

ARTICLES of a treaty made at Vincennes in the Indiana territory, between William Henry Harrison, governor of the said territory, superintendent of Indian affairs and commissioner plenipotentiary of the United States for concluding any treaty or treaties which may be found necessary with any of the Indian tribes north west of the river Ohio of the one part, and the head chiefs and warriors of the Kaskaskia tribe of Indians so called, but which tribe is the remains and rightfully represent all the tribes of the Illinois Indians, originally called the Kaskaskia, Mitchigamia, Cahokia and Tamaroi of the other part:

ARTICLE 1.
Whereas from a variety of unfortunate circumstances the several tribes of Illinois Indians are reduced to a very small number, the remains of which have been long consolidated and known by the name of the Kaskaskia tribe, and finding themselves unable to occupy the extensive tract of country which of right belongs to them and which was possessed by their ancestors for many generations, the chiefs and warriors of the said tribe being also desirous of procuring the means of improvement in the arts of civilized life, and a more certain and effectual support for their women and children, have, for the considerations hereinafter mentioned, relinquished and by these presents do relinquish and cede to the United States all the lands in the Illinois country, which the said tribe has heretofore possessed, or which they may rightfully claim, reserving to themselves however the tract of about three hundred and fifty acres near the town of Kaskaskia, which they have always held and which was secured to them by the act of Congress of the third day of March, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-one, and also the right of locating one other tract of twelve hundred and eighty acres within the bounds of that now ceded, which two tracts of land shall remain to them forever.

ARTICLE 2.
The United States will take the Kaskaskia tribe under their immediate care and patronage, and will afford them a protection as effectual against the other Indian tribes and against all other persons whatever as is enjoyed by their own citizens. And the said Kaskaskia tribe do hereby engage to refrain from making war or giving any insult or offence to any other Indian tribe or to any foreign nation, without having first obtained the approbation and consent of the United States.

ARTICLE 3.
The annuity heretofore given by the United States to the said tribe shall be increased to one thousand dollars, which is to be paid to them either in money, merchandise, provisions or domestic animals, at the option of the said tribe: and when the said annuity or any part thereof is paid in merchandise, it is to be delivered to them either at Vincennes, Fort Massac or Kaskaskia, and the first cost of the goods in the sea-port where they may be procured is alone to be charged to the said tribe free from the cost of transportation, or any other contingent expense. Whenever the said tribe may choose to receive money, provisions or domestic animals for the whole or in part of the said annuity, the same shall be delivered at the town of Kaskaskia. The United States will also cause to be built a house suitable for the accommodation of the chief of the said tribe, and will enclose for their use a field not exceeding one hundred acres with a good and sufficient fence. And whereas, The greater part of the said tribe have been baptised and received into the Catholic church to which they are much attached, the United States will give annually for seven years one hundred dollars towards the support of a priest of that religion, who will engage to perform for the said tribe the duties of his office and also to instruct as many of their children as possible in the rudiments of literature. And the United States will further give the sum of three hundred dollars to assist the said tribe in the erection of a church. The stipulations made in this and the preceding article, together with the sum of five hundred and eighty dollars, which is now paid or assured to be paid for the said tribe for the purpose of procuring some necessary articles, and to relieve them from debts which they have heretofore contracted, is considered as a full and ample compensation for the relinquishment made to the United States in the first article.

ARTICLE 4.
The United States reserve to themselves the right at any future period of dividing the annuity now promised to the said tribe amongst the several families thereof, reserving always a suitable sum for the great chief and his family.

ARTICLE 5.
And to the end that the United States may be enabled to fix with the other Indian tribes a boundary between their respective claims, the chiefs and head warriors of the said Kaskaskia tribe do hereby declare that their rightful claim is as follows, viz: Beginning at the confluence of the Ohio and the Mississippi, thence up the Ohio to the mouth of the Saline creek, about twelve miles below the mouth of the Wabash, thence along the dividing ridge between the said creek and the Wabash until it comes to the general dividing ridge between the waters which fall into the Wabash, and those which fall into the Kaskaskia river; and thence along the said ridge until it reaches the waters which fall into the Illinois river, thence in a direct course to the mouth of the Illinois river, and thence down the Mississippi to the beginning.

ARTICLE 6.
As long as the lands which have been ceded by this treaty shall continue to be the property of the United States, the said tribe shall have the privilege of living and hunting upon them in the same manner that they have hitherto done.

ARTICLE 7.
This treaty is to be in force and binding upon the said parties, as soon as it shall be ratified by the President and Senate of the United States.
In witness whereof, the said commissioner plenipotentiary, and the head chiefs and warriors of the said Kaskaskia tribe of Indians, have hereunto set their hands and affixed their seals, the thirteenth day of August, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and three, and of the Independence of the United States the twenty-eighth.

​

 

[Gonz]

Holy shit Batman. Your theseis is almost done. Two weeks early too.

 

[2minkey]

i'd have to fail him though, seeing as it's just a cut and paste job...

 

[Gonz]

*still waiting for an original thought & an explanation of intent.*

 

[Gato_Solo]

*still waiting for an original thought & an explanation of intent.*

He still hasn't posted the source for the copy I asked for on FRIDAY. If this keeps up, we may well be out of a forum for violating the AUP...

 

[FredFlash]

John Adams Turned Out of Office for "Meddling with Religion"

John Adams Turned Out of Office for "Meddling with Religion"​

Thomas Jefferson defeated President John Adams in his bid for reelection in 1800. In a letter to Benjamin Rush, Adams claimed "a national fast recommended by me turned me out of office." He was suspected of "meddling with religion" and "charged with an… attempt to promote a national establishment of Presbyterianism in America…”

In the passage below, John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, describes protesters parading in the streets to protest his religious proclamation.

I have no doubt you [were] fast asleep in philosophical tranquility, when ten thousand people, and perhaps many more, were parading the streets of Philadelphia, on the evening of my Fast Day; when even Governor Mifflin himself, thought it his duty to order a patrol of horse and foot to preserve the peace; when Market Street was as full as men could stand by one another, and even before my door; when some of my domestics in frenzy, determined to sacrifice their lives in my defense; when all were ready to make a desperate salley among the multitude, and others were with difficulty and danger dragged back by the others; when I myself judged it prudent and necessary to order chests of arms from the War Office to be brought through by lanes and back doors: determined to defend my house at the expense of my life, and the lives of the few, very few domestics and friends within it.
​

 

[MrBishop]

Listen up FF...if you are a human being and not some concocted piece of web-programming.

Start adding links to what you are quoting - or face silencing as per the AUP.

Have a nice day.

 

[Gonz]

Hey, Fred, original content needs to accompany your quotes otherwise, they're gonna get edited. An occassion quote, by itself, to make a point is one thing. You're taking it too far.

What point are you trying to make?

 

[FredFlash]

Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America

Listen up FF...if you are a human being and not some concocted piece of web-programming.

Start adding links to what you are quoting - or face silencing as per the AUP.

Have a nice day.

I don't get all of my quotes from links. Is the following acceptable citation of my sources, when I don't have links?

John Adams Turned Out of Office for "Meddling with Religion"​

Thomas Jefferson defeated President John Adams in his bid for reelection in 1800. In a letter to Benjamin Rush, Adams claimed "a national fast recommended by me turned me out of office." He was suspected of "meddling with religion" and "charged with an… attempt to promote a national establishment of Presbyterianism in America…”

The National Fast, recommended by me turned me out of office. It was connected with the general assembly of the Presbyterian Church, which I had no concern in. That assembly has allarmed and alienated Quakers, Anabaptists, Mennonists, Moravians, Swedenborgians, Methodists, Catholicks, protestant Episcopalians, Arians, Socinians, Armenians, & & &, Atheists and Deists might be added. A general Suspicon prevailed that the Presbyterian Church was ambitious and aimed at an Establishment of a National Church. I was represented as a Presbyterian and at the head of this political and ecclesiastical Project. The secret whisper ran through them “Let us have Jefferson, Madison, Burr, any body, whether they be Philosophers, Deists, or even Atheists, rather than a Presbyterian President.” This principle is at the bottom of the unpopularity of national Fasts and Thanksgivings. Nothing is more dreaded than the National Government meddling with Religion.

--A letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush dated June 12, 1812. The letter appears in “Old Family Letters: Copied from the Originals for Alexander Biddle. Series A. Phila., 1892. This volume comprises letters written to Benjamin Rush by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. The letter is found on pages 392-93
​

In the passage below, John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, describes protesters parading in the streets to protest his religious proclamation.

I have no doubt you [were] fast asleep in philosophical tranquility, when ten thousand people, and perhaps many more, were parading the streets of Philadelphia, on the evening of my Fast Day; when even Governor Mifflin himself, thought it his duty to order a patrol of horse and foot to preserve the peace; when Market Street was as full as men could stand by one another, and even before my door; when some of my domestics in frenzy, determined to sacrifice their lives in my defense; when all were ready to make a desperate salley among the multitude, and others were with difficulty and danger dragged back by the others; when I myself judged it prudent and necessary to order chests of arms from the War Office to be brought through by lanes and back doors: determined to defend my house at the expense of my life, and the lives of the few, very few domestics and friends within it.

​

--Letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson dated June 30, 1813 published in THE WRITINGS OF THOMAS JEFFERSON; Definitive Edition; CONTAINING HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY, NOTES ON VIRGINIA, PARLIAMENTARY MANUAL, OFFICIAL PAPERS, MESSAGES AND ADDRESSES, AND OTHER WRITINGS, OFFICIAL AND PRIVATE, NOW COLLECTED AND PUBLISHED IN THEIR ENTIRETY FOR THE FIRST TIME INCLUDING ALL OF THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS, DEPOSITED IN THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE AND PUBLISHED IN 1853 BY ORDER OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE OF CONGRESS WITH NUMEROUS ILLUSTRATIONS AND A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYTICAL INDEX; ALBERT ELLERY BERGH EDITOR; VOL. XIII.; ISSUED UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE THOMAS JEFFERSON MEMORIAL ASSOCIATION OF THE UNITED STATES WASHINGTON, D. C.; 1907; Page 296.​