Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
I don't understand what your are saying.
I don't understand what your are saying.
Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says Americans
- Thread starter FredFlash
- Start date
Inkara1
Well-Known Member
He's saying that your posts look like you trying to pass off others' content as your own. You'll probably say that's not your intent, but what you say your intent is isn't important. It's called plagiarism. It's also called a violation of copyright and it opens the site to litigation.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
Somehow, I don't believe that you're typing all this up by yourself...unless you're copying from a text you've written yourself, which is understandable.
You take text in context and quote the original text, but not the commentary. For instance
Did you personally just compose this part: "Thomas Jefferson defeated President John Adams in his bid for reelection in 1800. In a letter to Benjamin Rush, Adams claimed "a national fast recommended by me turned me out of office." He was suspected of "meddling with religion" and "charged with an… attempt to promote a national establishment of Presbyterianism in America…”" ?
The second part 'in italics' is referenced here: --A letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush dated June 12, 1812. The letter appears in “Old Family Letters: Copied from the Originals for Alexander Biddle. Series A. Phila., 1892. This volume comprises letters written to Benjamin Rush by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. The letter is found on pages 392-93.
But the commentary isn't. If you are quoting someone else's commentary, post a link. If this is your commentary..say so.
Somehow, I don't believe that you're typing all this up by yourself...unless you're copying from a text you've written yourself, which is understandable.
You take text in context and quote the original text, but not the commentary. For instance
Did you personally just compose this part: "Thomas Jefferson defeated President John Adams in his bid for reelection in 1800. In a letter to Benjamin Rush, Adams claimed "a national fast recommended by me turned me out of office." He was suspected of "meddling with religion" and "charged with an… attempt to promote a national establishment of Presbyterianism in America…”" ?
The second part 'in italics' is referenced here: --A letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush dated June 12, 1812. The letter appears in “Old Family Letters: Copied from the Originals for Alexander Biddle. Series A. Phila., 1892. This volume comprises letters written to Benjamin Rush by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. The letter is found on pages 392-93.
But the commentary isn't. If you are quoting someone else's commentary, post a link. If this is your commentary..say so.
He has, to his credit, generally given reference to the piece he's quoting. Obviously, he's cutting & pasting, which is ok, provided there are links to the original interenet peice or reference to the orginal document.
Howeverm it's become a home away from home for Americans for Seperation of Church & State propaganda. Without his adding something of interest to place the piece in context to HIM, it'll soon get edited out.
f you Google particualr phrases, you can find him on a rampage 'net wide. It's gettng boring to read 200 year old letters without relevence to his opinoin.
Howeverm it's become a home away from home for Americans for Seperation of Church & State propaganda. Without his adding something of interest to place the piece in context to HIM, it'll soon get edited out.
f you Google particualr phrases, you can find him on a rampage 'net wide. It's gettng boring to read 200 year old letters without relevence to his opinoin.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
I have typed up some of the quotations, but I have not typed up long ones. Sometimes I scan the pages of a book into a word processing program with a very sophisticated OCS device which does about 95% of the typing for me
Sometimes I obtain the quotes from the manuscripts of academic works that I am asked to read and criticize prior to publication. Sometimes I get the quotes from the authors of essays that appear in academic journals that were typed by them or an assistant. Sometimes the library that owns the document has photocopies or typed transcripts of the document and emails them to me.
Yes, I compose that
I thought by indenting and italicizing the passage from the letter and then by indenting the citation, it was clear that citation referenced only the passage from the letter. Nevertheless, I will endeavor to distinguish my comments from the quotations I use, and to properly document the source of the quotations I use, with links, if such are available.
I have typed up some of the quotations, but I have not typed up long ones. Sometimes I scan the pages of a book into a word processing program with a very sophisticated OCS device which does about 95% of the typing for me
Sometimes I obtain the quotes from the manuscripts of academic works that I am asked to read and criticize prior to publication. Sometimes I get the quotes from the authors of essays that appear in academic journals that were typed by them or an assistant. Sometimes the library that owns the document has photocopies or typed transcripts of the document and emails them to me.
Yes, I compose that
I thought by indenting and italicizing the passage from the letter and then by indenting the citation, it was clear that citation referenced only the passage from the letter. Nevertheless, I will endeavor to distinguish my comments from the quotations I use, and to properly document the source of the quotations I use, with links, if such are available.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
You are blatantly ignoring facts. Facts, such as this one as I have pointed out:
I do not think it is "fifth hand hearsay", and Jefferson's actions support that quote.
You can read the letter here.
You are blatantly ignoring facts. Facts, such as this one as I have pointed out:
I do not think it is "fifth hand hearsay", and Jefferson's actions support that quote.
You can read the letter here.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
Thank you for the link to the letter from Jefferson to Carroll. I read it, and found nothing that Jefferson wrote could be reasonably interpreted as urging local governments to make land available, at no cost, for Christian purposes.
Jefferson informs Carroll that he "has received his application to purchase a site for a Roman Catholic church" and forwarded it. This is just of many examples where evidence cited by David Barton, actually contradicts his claim.
Thank you for the link to the letter from Jefferson to Carroll. I read it, and found nothing that Jefferson wrote could be reasonably interpreted as urging local governments to make land available, at no cost, for Christian purposes.
Jefferson informs Carroll that he "has received his application to purchase a site for a Roman Catholic church" and forwarded it. This is just of many examples where evidence cited by David Barton, actually contradicts his claim.
2minkey
bootlicker
if either of you think you're going to reconstruct history through fragments such as the ones yer offering - especially HERE - you're sadly mistaken.
gotholic - it doesn't matter if a bunch of important people in the early US were or were not christians, dolphin squeezers, or cousin kissers. it's pretty obvious that what makes the US unique - even the idea of having a constitution - is a direct outgrowth of the humanist idea(l)s of the enlightenment.
gotholic - it doesn't matter if a bunch of important people in the early US were or were not christians, dolphin squeezers, or cousin kissers. it's pretty obvious that what makes the US unique - even the idea of having a constitution - is a direct outgrowth of the humanist idea(l)s of the enlightenment.
Interesting, you keep saying CONSTITUTION. That document only limits the power of the federal government to specific & spelled out limitations.
The Bill of Rights has the part about allowing the free exercise thereof & the limitation on Congress shall make no law...
However, not in your favor, the last line of the Constitution does acknowledge a deity...
The Bill of Rights has the part about allowing the free exercise thereof & the limitation on Congress shall make no law...
However, not in your favor, the last line of the Constitution does acknowledge a deity...
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
minkey said:
It does matter to a certain point, i.e. where do your values come from. While it can be argued to no end whether the values brought about were based on Judeo-Christianity or not, the fact that most, if not all, of the founding fathers belonged to a Judeo-Christian religion kinda makes the point moot.
I also don't believe for one minute that FredFlash is responsible for more than 10% of what he writes...As for the constitution itself, I thought it was a direct outgrowth/evolution of the Magna Carta...
I've noticed they have added a letter...B.C.E -Before Common Era...to seem less relgious.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
Where did you flunk Constitution 101? Change the word "limitations" to "enumerated powers" and your statement would be accurate.
I thought you read the Constitution to prohibit the establishment by law of a national religion, or the prohibition by law of the free exercise of the national religion.
No it doesn't. The Philadelphia Convention did not vote to put the words "in the year of Our Lord" in the Constitution. It was added by the secretary or a clerk. The only thing it does is identify the epoch of time to which the document belongs.
Where did you flunk Constitution 101? Change the word "limitations" to "enumerated powers" and your statement would be accurate.
I thought you read the Constitution to prohibit the establishment by law of a national religion, or the prohibition by law of the free exercise of the national religion.
No it doesn't. The Philadelphia Convention did not vote to put the words "in the year of Our Lord" in the Constitution. It was added by the secretary or a clerk. The only thing it does is identify the epoch of time to which the document belongs.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
I don't think any of the men who framed the Constitution, or voted to ratify it, were of the Jewish faith.
Also, most Christians in the United States believed that Separation of Church and State was an article of faith of true Christianity. The evidence is the articles of faith, of the Liberal Protestant sects, in effect during the early years of the Republic.
The Protestant Episcopal Church in American even amended its creed to conform to the principle of Separation of Church and State embodied in the U. S. Constitution.
The creeds of the conservative/Satanic Protestant sects continued to favor the evil union of religion and government. However, they were the minority.
I don't think any of the men who framed the Constitution, or voted to ratify it, were of the Jewish faith.
Also, most Christians in the United States believed that Separation of Church and State was an article of faith of true Christianity. The evidence is the articles of faith, of the Liberal Protestant sects, in effect during the early years of the Republic.
The Protestant Episcopal Church in American even amended its creed to conform to the principle of Separation of Church and State embodied in the U. S. Constitution.
The creeds of the conservative/Satanic Protestant sects continued to favor the evil union of religion and government. However, they were the minority.
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
We already have pedanticman here.
How, specifically, did I vary from that interpretation?
Have you an eyewitness or sworn testimony to that? If not, why not?
We already have pedanticman here.
How, specifically, did I vary from that interpretation?
Have you an eyewitness or sworn testimony to that? If not, why not?
Re: Congressional Meddling In Religion Violates Church-State Separation, Says America
According to you silly interpretation, the only religion we can freely exercise is the national religion. However, since we have no national religion to freely exercise, we have no protection whatsoever against the U. S. Government prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Of course, that is exactly what the friends of religious tyranny want.
I rely on the records of the Philadelphia Conventions. I will provided the citation upon request.
Are you familiar with the National Reform Association's campaign, from the 1860's to the 1870's, to "Christianize" the U. S. Constitution. They generally rejected the view that "In the year of our Lord" was adequate acknowledgment of God.
They failed to "Christianize" the Constitution. However, they did succeed in getting "In God We Trust" placed on the nation's coins. Many believed that putting God on the coins would please God. However, less than two weeks after President Lincoln signed in to law the evil legislation that put "In God We Trust" on the coins, God allowed an assassin to kill him.
According to you silly interpretation, the only religion we can freely exercise is the national religion. However, since we have no national religion to freely exercise, we have no protection whatsoever against the U. S. Government prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Of course, that is exactly what the friends of religious tyranny want.
I rely on the records of the Philadelphia Conventions. I will provided the citation upon request.
Are you familiar with the National Reform Association's campaign, from the 1860's to the 1870's, to "Christianize" the U. S. Constitution. They generally rejected the view that "In the year of our Lord" was adequate acknowledgment of God.
They failed to "Christianize" the Constitution. However, they did succeed in getting "In God We Trust" placed on the nation's coins. Many believed that putting God on the coins would please God. However, less than two weeks after President Lincoln signed in to law the evil legislation that put "In God We Trust" on the coins, God allowed an assassin to kill him.