Diversity remains a one way street

[Winky]

"is debated constantly by smarter folks than I"

Dang this thread is replete with profundities!

Simply put Man (humankind) doesn't have the
answer where it all began where it will all end or
WTF it's all going! Science has a much better chance
of answering these questions than a false belief in
Dogma ever will...

And now I return you to your customary
dead horse beating…

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

The first "being?" Well, that would certainly be subject to debate.

Maybe from your perspective, but not from mine. Genesis pretty much spells it out to me. Non need to "debate" it...it's all right there, laid out in front of whosoever would seek.

Sorry. Just not buying it. When your theory cannot provide even so much as a starting point, in my book it doesn't hold a lot of water.

As I stated before, I do not contend that evolution is false. Anyone with functioning brain cells can see evidence that things evolve. I just don't see it as the end-all, be-all answer to how life came to be. Probably because, it ISN'T the way life came to be.

 

[chcr]

Maybe from your perspective, but not from mine. Genesis pretty much spells it out to me. Non need to "debate" it...it's all right there, laid out in front of whosoever would seek.

Sorry. Just not buying it. When your theory cannot provide even so much as a starting point, in my book it doesn't hold a lot of water.

As I stated before, I do not contend that evolution is false. Anyone with functioning brain cells can see evidence that things evolve. I just don't see it as the end-all, be-all answer to how life came to be. Probably because, it ISN'T the way life came to be.

Well, believe what you want, I will. If you do the arithmetic, biblical creation states that the earth is on the order of 10,000 years old. It is demonstrably much older.

Sorry. Just not buying it.

The "starting point" happens to not be a point you can point at and say "here, life started here" so you don't accept it. Certainly your right. The "theory" (evolution is a fact, natural selection is a theory) provides for a beginning, just not one you are willing to accept. Again, your right to believe what you want. My right to completely disagree and my right to complain when you want to teach an un-scientifically supportable myth as "science" in school.

 

[Professur]

Well, believe what you want, I will. If you do the arithmetic, biblical creation states that the earth is on the order of 10,000 years old. It is demonstrably much older.

Hold the phone a minute. Prove it. Not national geographic. Not NASA. You. Prove it. Right now.

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

My right to completely disagree and my right to complain when you want to teach an un-scientifically supportable myth as "science" in school.

Where have I ever advocated the teaching of creationism in school?

 

[chcr]

Where have I ever advocated the teaching of creationism in school?

Sorry, you didn't. Just one of my personal, whiny pet peeves.

 

[Professur]

Actually, that's the cruz of the whole issue. We have an educated man, in a teaching environment. Everyone's freaking out in case he might teach what he believes. And you just made that very same leap.

 

[catocom]

Well, believe what you want, I will. If you do the arithmetic, biblical creation states that the earth is on the order of 10,000 years old. It is demonstrably much older.

You mean the arithmetic that say 1 day in heaven is as 1000 years?
You mean when people lived to be 1000 years old???

There's 10,000 years of who begot who just in Exodus.

 

[chcr]

You mean the arithmetic that say 1 day in heaven is as 1000 years?
You mean when people lived to be 1000 years old???

Archbishop Ussher? Heard of him? The proof is actually quite self consistent, but even allowing for errors in arithmetic the earth can't be much more than 10,000 years old if you count backwards from the death of Jesus to creation, unless the days were a lot longer. If you seriously believe ancient people lived thousands of years, there's not much more for me to say.

Actually, that's the cruz of the whole issue. We have an educated man, in a teaching environment. Everyone's freaking out in case he might teach what he believes. And you just made that very same leap.

That's because so many people try to shove teaching biblical creation in public schools down everyone's throat here. Perfectly free to teach it in private schools and church, but I don't like it in the public schools (separation of church and state, y'know). Especially to the exclusion of evolution, which many creation proponents want. I overreacted and I apologized. Are we done now?

 

[Professur]

Well, believe what you want, I will. If you do the arithmetic, biblical creation states that the earth is on the order of 10,000 years old. It is demonstrably much older.

Hold the phone a minute. Prove it. Not national geographic. Not NASA. You. Prove it. Right now.

I'm just waiting on this. You said it's demonstrable. I eagerly await your demonstration. Y'see. You've made a cardinal mistake at this juncture. You've forgotten that just because someone is a scientist .... doesn't mean he's right. That a scientist states that so-and-so is true .... doesn't make it any truer than if a politician ... or a priest said it. It still falls to your belief. It still falls to that scientist's belief. He believes that his methods are accurate. You believe that his findings are proven. But .... if you haven't proven them yourself ..... then you, just like everyone else .... are making a leap of faith. Even if you did manage to prove it yourself .... you'd also have to prove that your methods aren't faulty. (ever see the laser experiments to find the ether?)

Science is a wonderful thing. But in the end ... it's just another belief.

 

[Winky]

"Science is a wonderful thing. But in the end ... it's just another belief."
Now ain't just what you'd expect from a Chirster.

Yeah knowledge and belief are equal "Yeah right"


How about carbon-14 dating?

Damn you people will say anything to support your superstitions!

 

[catocom]

If you seriously believe ancient people lived thousands of years, there's not much more for me to say.

Not 1000(s) just up close to 1 thousand.
Like Enoch that live to his 900s, and who's to say how long Adam lived. ???
You believe in Evolution don'tcha

That's what I was saying about scientology, and evolution in the mix.
Who's to say the earth has always maintain the same orbit around the earth,
or that the earth has always spun at the same speed?

I see no evidence of that, but some people believe it, why?


The way I see it people just want to do what they want to do, instead of
having to answer to anything, or anyone.

 

[Professur]

"Science is a wonderful thing. But in the end ... it's just another belief."
Now ain't just what you'd expect from a Chirster.

Yeah knowledge and belief are equal "Yeah right"


How about carbon-14 dating?

Damn you people will say anything to support your superstitions!

I beg your pardon, Winky, but that's Christian, not Christer.

Please, why don't you tell us what the difference (in your opinion) between knowledge and belief is.

 

[Winky]

Help me out with that assignment Prof

Define belief for me! as you seems to type that it is the be all end all of the endpoint of alllll Knowledge!?!?

I doubt we can agree on this issue because as an atheist I have to believe
that true knowledge is possible whereas you as a ‘believer’ in the supernatural can not!


Just take this on Faith brotha

 

[Professur]

Help me out with that assignment Prof

Define belief for me! as you seems to type that it is the be all end all of the endpoint of alllll Knowledge!?!?

I doubt we can agree on this issue because as an atheist I have to believe
that true knowledge is possible whereas you as a ‘believer’ in the supernatural can not!


Just take this on Faith brotha

Ah, clarity. Thank you Winky.

To be suscinct. Belief is the acceptance that something is without requirement of substantiation. That God exists. That the subway will work. That the sky is, in fact, blue.

Knowledge is the acceptance of something, with substantiation. That the subway is working, because I heard a report on the radio. That cigarettes are bad for you, because studies state so. That falling down will hurt, because it did last time I fell.

The problem with knowledge is that it takes belief in the proof. If you don't believe the woman on the radio, you don't know that the subway is running. it might be, it might not be. Above, we accepted that the subway was running as fact, because of our belief of the radio personality.

Does that clarify it for you, Winky?

 

[Winky]

Aw shucksers I was with you until the third paragraph

Man I'll certainly give you credit where credit is due.
You are truly relentless!!!!
Never let go of your key point, that knowledge is rooted in 'belief' and not reality Hah

Hey Lemme take you onna widdle mental trip (without ever leaving the farm)

I'm a self avowed Atheist M'Kay? I like most parents
that have a belief in this matter I'd like my son to 'think'
as I do in these matters. The one place in this entire city
that I knew he could get the best education just so happens to be 1.7 miles from my house. A Jesuit college prep school! So I let him go there. (he actually asked to go there) So do you think that they influenced his beliefs, would you send your Kids to an ATHEIST school?

Guess what? Theology is a required course, of course he got straight A's every time, knows some stuff about Catholicism he does. Fact is the proper morals taught by Christianity are the way I've lived my life and 'pray' he lives his.

But don't think for a second that at anytime creationism can be held in the same esteem as science by any rational being nope not ever.

So partailly attempt an answer to your original query...

Belief is a concept not rooted in facts. Belief requires no substantiation. Knowledge on the other hand MUST be based in facts, if the facts are found to be false or are superceded by new facts then the knowledge changes it become greater. The belief regarding creation remains static because it isn't based on any facts. The Christian (and the fables regarding the matter from other religions) 'story' of creation remains unchanged since it began, whereas science is evolving grow increasing knowledge about creation!

Damn that’s nearly as incoherent and lengthy as one of TG’s posts.
I said nearly as I would never be able to approach that gurls skillz
---------------
No wait edited to add

IF your Kids are in public school they are ALREADY
in an Atheist school lol

 

[chcr]

Not 1000(s) just up close to 1 thousand.
Like Enoch that live to his 900s, and who's to say how long Adam lived. ???
You believe in Evolution don'tcha

That's what I was saying about scientology, and evolution in the mix.
Who's to say the earth has always maintain the same orbit around the earth,
or that the earth has always spun at the same speed?

I see no evidence of that, but some people believe it, why?

The way I see it people just want to do what they want to do, instead of
having to answer to anything, or anyone.

1. If the orbit were substantially different, there would not be any life (as we know it) on earth, it would be either too hot or too cold.
2. The rotation of the earth has not in fact always been constant, nor is it consant now. It has been slowing down since it's formation. Since the time of Abraham we have probably gained 10 or 12 seconds a day
3. Empirical evidence tells us that the human lifespan has been increasing since humans appeared.

Cat, we can argue this forever. I'm tired of it. Creation starts with an answer and tries to work backwards to a proof (ignoring evidence that contradicts it). Believe it if you will but it is not and will never be science. You know, I don't mean to belittle anyone else's beliefs. It's just that the whole busieness is so obviously a myth to me that I honestly don't understand how anyone accepts it.

Here's a teaser for ya though. Archeologists find a man entombed in ice. They determine almost immediately that it's Adam. How did they know?

 

[Gonz]

Science is a wonderful thing. But in the end ... it's just another belief.

It works better with things we can lay our hands on than something that is assumed.

 

[chcr]

That turns out not to be the case.

(AKA how does a refrigerator work, faith or science?)

 

[Thulsa Doom]

If I may...

As most of you could likely guess, I am a creationist.

I have little problem with evolution theories to a point. To deny that creatures evolve to adapt to their climate etc is folly. My question is this:

If evolution answers all these questions, how did the first being come to exist that everything else evolved FROM?

Granted, I have done virtually zero study into Darwin's or anyone else's ideas about evolution, as I am a creationist proponent. Hence, I never saw the need to study other theories too much. As I said, I don't doubt that creatures do evolve over time to become stronger. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc....all valid. But I have yet to hear these ideas explain in an acceptable way how that first being came to be at all. Trace any organism back far enough...that's fine with me. But something had to start it all.

For the record, my mind won't be changed on the issue. I'm also not trying to start/propogate holy war here. Simply curious is all I am. Creation explains everything I need explaining, I'm satisfied with it, and that's that. To me creation and evolution are not competing notions; they are both valid and coexist wonderfully. Evolution of species is undeniable, but something or someone had to create them in the first place, right?

You dont really sound like a true creationist actually. you sound more like a christian who has no issue with evolution but doesnt know how the whole thing started. nothing wrong with that point of view at all. many creationists, on the other hand, reject evolution out of hand for fear it goes against what the bible says. when, in fact, it seems to me a smart god would create natural processies to bring "his creation" to fruition.