Health Care

[spike]

If you Libs had someone who could speak like this, give analysis like this, make as much sense as this Air America would still be on the air and would be giving Conservative radio a run for their money.

Rush doesn't speak well and his analysis is shit and he lies constantly. He just alarms the masses who can't think for themselves. Libs don't need that.

 

[spike]

You fail to understand how this works at all. You don't have to ask the GVTs permission for anything at all. You have a card. You swipe it when you're in a clinic/hospital/doctor's office and you get served..and that's the last you hear of it. They don't even bill your home.

After that, it's between the GVT and the hospital. If the hospital is trying to charge for a heavily padded bill and unnecessary tests, they soon learn that they're doing it for free..cause the GVT don't take that kinda BS any more than would an insurance company.

 

[MrBishop]

Obama is trying to make people unemployed in order to try to pass the Healthcare plan??!
GVT plans on denying people healthcare??
Obama is destroying the economy?!

My God, this man is sick.

 

[Professur]

Hey Bish, when's the last time you went to a private clinic? Saw a specialist without having to consult a GP first? Had a walk-in MRI?

 

[randomJACKASS]

Hey Bish, when's the last time you went to a private clinic? Saw a specialist without having to consult a GP first? Had a walk-in MRI?

Umm, sorry but that stuff doesn't happen here either....

 

[Professur]

Shhh.

 

[MrBishop]

Hey Bish, when's the last time you went to a private clinic? Saw a specialist without having to consult a GP first? Had a walk-in MRI?

6months, -x months, 6months.
It's complicated but to be more specific, none of the above were referenced by a GP, but a Chiro-not sure how she managed to skip the GP route first. Waiting for a call from the MTL Neuro re: my next appointment. Likely before December.

 

[MrBishop]

oh...and the first and last (same appointment) were out of my pocket - and my choice to skip the line while doing so. No insurance, no medicare - cash. A choice which would NOT be removed from our neighbours either.

 

[catocom]

Umm, sorry but that stuff doesn't happen here either....

I have heard of it.

 

[randomJACKASS]

I have heard of it.

Maybe if you're rich as God.

 

[catocom]

then there's family, and friends...

 

[Gonz]

Maybe if you're rich as God.

MRI's aren't that expensive.

 

[jimpeel]

SOURCE

FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

By CALVIN WOODWARD and JIM KUHNHENN (AP) – 1 day ago

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's assertion Wednesday that government will stay out of health care decisions in an overhauled system is hard to square with the proposals coming out of Congress and with his own rhetoric.

Even now, nearly half the costs of health care in the U.S. are paid for by government at all levels. Federal authority would only grow under any proposal in play.

A look at some of Obama's claims in his prime-time news conference:

___

OBAMA: "We already have rough agreement" on some aspects of what a health care overhaul should involve, and one is: "It will keep government out of health care decisions, giving you the option to keep your insurance if you're happy with it."

THE FACTS: In House legislation, a commission appointed by the government would determine what is and isn't covered by insurance plans offered in a new purchasing pool, including a plan sponsored by the government. The bill also holds out the possibility that, over time, those standards could be imposed on all private insurance plans, not just the ones in the pool.

Indeed, Obama went on to lay out other principles of reform that plainly show the government making key decisions in health care. He said insurance companies would be barred from dropping coverage when someone gets too sick, limits would be set on out-of-pocket expenses, and preventive care such as checkups and mammograms would be covered.

It's true that people would not be forced to give up a private plan and go with a public one. The question is whether all of those private plans would still be in place if the government entered the marketplace in a bigger way.

He addressed some of the nuances under questioning. "Can I guarantee that there are going to be no changes in the health care delivery system?" he said. "No. The whole point of this is to try to encourage changes that work for the American people and make them healthier."

He acknowledged then that the "government already is making some of these decisions."

___

OBAMA: "I have also pledged that health insurance reform will not add to our deficit over the next decade, and I mean it."

THE FACTS: The president has said repeatedly that he wants "deficit-neutral" health care legislation, meaning that every dollar increase in cost is met with a dollar of new revenue or a dollar of savings. But some things are more neutral than others. White House Budget Director Peter Orszag told reporters this week that the promise does not apply to proposed spending of about $245 billion over the next decade to increase fees for doctors serving Medicare patients. Democrats and the Obama administration argue that the extra payment, designed to prevent a scheduled cut of about 21 percent in doctor fees, already was part of the administration's policy, with or without a health care overhaul.

Beyond that, budget experts have warned about various accounting gimmicks that can mask true burdens on the deficit. The bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget lists a variety of them, including back-loading the heaviest costs at the end of the 10-year period and beyond.

___

OBAMA: "You haven't seen me out there blaming the Republicans."

THE FACTS: Obama did so in his opening statement, saying, "I've heard that one Republican strategist told his party that even though they may want to compromise, it's better politics to 'go for the kill.' Another Republican senator said that defeating health reform is about 'breaking' me."

___

OBAMA: "I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played in that. But I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home, and, number three, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

THE FACTS: The facts are in dispute between black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. and the white police sergeant who arrested him at his Cambridge, Mass., home when officers went there to investigate a reported break-in. But this much is clear: Gates wasn't arrested for being in his own home, as Obama implies, but for allegedly being belligerent when the sergeant demanded his identification. The president did mention that the professor was charged with disorderly conduct. Charges were dropped.

___

OBAMA: "If we had done nothing, if you had the same old budget as opposed to the changes we made in our budget, you'd have a $9.3 trillion deficit over the next 10 years. Because of the changes we've made, it's going to be $7.1 trillion."

THE FACTS: Obama's numbers are based on figures compiled by his own budget office. But they rely on assumptions about economic growth that some economists find too optimistic. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, in its own analysis of the president's budget numbers, concluded that the cumulative deficit over the next decade would be $9.1 trillion.

Associated Press writer Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

 

[jimpeel]

SOURCE

Experts Dispute Some Points in Health Talk

By ROBERT PEAR and PETER BAKER
Published: July 22, 2009

WASHINGTON — President Obama showed great fluency in the intricate details of health policy at his news conference on Wednesday night, but experts said some of his points were debatable.

Mr. Obama said doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies and AARP had supported efforts to overhaul health care.

While it is true the American Medical Association has endorsed a bill drafted by House Democratic leaders, a half-dozen state medical societies have sharply criticized provisions that would establish a new government-run health insurance plan.

Likewise, Mr. Obama said Medicare could save large amounts of money by creating “an independent group of doctors and medical experts who are empowered to eliminate waste and inefficiency” and hold down the annual increases in payments to health care providers.

Far from supporting this proposal, the American Hospital Association is urging hospital executives to lobby against it.

Of the proposed new cost-control agency, Mr. Obama said: “It’s not going to reduce Medicare benefits. What it’s going to do is to change how those benefits are delivered so that they’re more efficient.”

Hospitals say the cuts could indeed cut services in some rural areas and from teaching hospitals, which receive extra payments because of higher costs.

In seeking to portray health legislation as bipartisan, Mr. Obama said that 160 Republican amendments were adopted in a bill approved last week by the Senate health committee. Republicans said many of the amendments involved technical provisions and did not alter the fundamental features of the bill.

The president said that health insurance companies were making “record profits.” America’s Health Insurance Plans, the main lobby for insurers, contends that “for every $1 spent on health care in America, approximately one penny goes to health plans’ profits.”

Mr. Obama said he was not proposing to ration care, but just wanted to coordinate it better. For example, he said, he wants to eliminate repetitious tests ordered by different doctors for the same patient.

Electronic medical records and health information technology, championed by Mr. Obama, could reduce such duplication. But, under his plan, it is not clear who would take responsibility for patients and coordinate care in traditional fee-for-service medicine.

The president continued to take credit for deficit reduction by making a claim that has been challenged by many experts.

“If we had done nothing, if you had the same old budget as opposed to the changes we made,” the deficit over the next 10 years would be $2.2 trillion greater, the president said.

In fact, $1.5 trillion of those “savings” are mainly based on an assumption that the United States would have had as many troops in Iraq in 10 years as it did when Mr. Obama took office. But before leaving office, President George W. Bush signed an agreement with Baghdad mandating the withdrawal of all American forces within three years.

So Mr. Obama is claiming credit for not spending money that, under the policy he inherited from Mr. Bush, would never have been spent in the first place.

 

[jimpeel]

Trouble in Utopia.

SOURCE

Political Punch
Power, pop, and probings from ABC News Senior White House Correspondent Jake Tapper

Leading Blue Dog Democrat: Pelosi Does Not Have the Votes for Health Care Reform

July 22, 2009 6:23 PM

ABC News' Jake Tapper and Z. Byron Wolf report:

How is health care reform progressing on Capitol Hill?

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., today insisted everything is smooth sailing with the House bill that would require every American to have health insurance or pay a fine; create a government run health plan to compete with private insurers to drive costs down; and impose an up to 5.4% new tax on top wage-earners.

“I have no question that we have the votes on the floor of the House to pass this legislation,” Pelosi told reporters.

But a leading conservative “Blue Dog” Democrat told ABC News that claim is questionable.

“No, I don’t think they have the votes,” Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., said, arguing if that were the case he and the other six Blue Dogs on the House Energy and Commerce Committee who have been holding up the bill in committee would be under far less pressure.

Ross says the concerns Blue Dogs have about the current House bill being too expensive and not doing enough to contain health care costs are widespread.

“We’re speaking for a silent majority within the Democratic caucus,” he said. “The American people want us to slow down and they want us to get it right.”

And what about on the Senate side?

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chair of the Senate Finance Committee, was overheard jokingly telling House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, “let me tell you, praying might be helpful here.”

-Jake Tapper and Z. Byron Wolf

 

[Cerise]

HR 3200--1017 pages.


Here's some highlights of the proposed 0bamacare:


Page 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the govt. will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS
that self insure!!

Page 29, line 3 starts explaining personal (5,000) and family (10,000) limits.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides
what
treatments/benefits you get.

Page 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
Benefits for you. YOU have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
illegal or otherwise

Page 58 HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individual’s finances &
a
National ID Healthcard will be issued! [Mark of the Beast? Rev 13]

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank
accounts
for elective funds transfer

Page 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families
in
labor unions & community organizations [such as ACORN].

Page 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans
under Govt control.

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC
plans in the Exchange

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specifies Benefit Levels for all Plans [The Govt
will
ration your Healthcare].

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic services. Example -
Translation for illegal aliens

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps
to sign up individuals For Govt HC plan

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. [AARP
members
- your health care WILL be rationed]

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individuals (redefined
elsewhere as all those under 133% of poverty level) will be automatically
enrolled in Medicaid. [No choice]

Page 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Govt for price fixing. No
“judicial
review” against Govt Monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ AMA - The Govt will tell you what you
can earn.

Page 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public
option
plan. [NO CHOICE]

Page 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND
their families. (this will cut a lot of jobs)

Page 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of 400k & above who does not
provide public option Pays 8% additional tax on all payroll.

Page 150 Lines 9-13 Business w payroll between 251k & 400k who doesn’t
provide
public option pays 2-6% additional tax on all payroll

Page 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable (who decides
what is acceptable?) HC according to Govt will be taxed additional 2.5% of
income

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual
Taxes. [however, Americans will pay]

Page 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Administration [GOVT] will have
access to ALL Americans’ finance/personal records

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC - “The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax” [Yes, it says that]

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid,
Seniors, low income, poor, affected [Pay attention seniors]

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have,
you’ll all be paid the same salary

Page 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr’s time, professional judgment,
etc.
[Literally value of humans].

Page 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC
industries

Page 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

Page 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT BY CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - [Cancer patients
-
welcome to rationing!]

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems
preventable readmissions.

Page 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that
results
in a readmission-Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs.
what/how
much they can own.

Page 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating
hospitals cannot expand

Page 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community
input required. [govt permission]

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based
measures. [HC the way they want. Rationing]

Page 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage
Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan

Page 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people
[such as Downs Syndrome]

Page 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. [HC by phone?]

Page 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. [Think
Senior
Citizens: end of life]

Page 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills,
durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life
resources, guiding you in death [think mandatory Kervorkian]

Page 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The
Govt has a say in how your life ends

Page 429 Lines 1-9 An “advocate care planning consult” will be used
frequently
as patients health deteriorates

Page 429 Lines 10-12 “advocate care consultation” may include an ORDER for
end
of life plans. [An ORDER from GOV]

Page 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end
of
life order.

Page 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will
have at end of life

Page 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations.
[ACORN Medical Services]

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. Monthly payment to a
community-based organization. [Like ACORN]

Page 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. [Which
means
they will insert Govt into your marriage]

Page 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those services.

 

[Gonz]

damnit Cerise, spike says EVERYBODY gets free treatment...even th eold codgers & thr useless

 

[spike]

Where did I say that? Link?

 

[jimpeel]

SOURCE

CBO deals new blow to health plan

By CHRIS FRATES | 7/25/09 5:49 PM EDT

For the second time this month, congressional budget analysts have dealt a blow to the Democrat's health reform efforts, this time by saying a plan touted by the White House as crucial to paying for the bill would actually save almost no money over 10 years.

A key House chairman and moderate House Democrats on Tuesday agreed to a White House-backed proposal that would give an outside panel the power to make cuts to government-financed health care programs. White House budget director Peter Orszag declared the plan "probably the most important piece that can be added" to the House's health care reform legislation.

But on Saturday, the Congressional Budget Office said the proposal to give an independent panel the power to keep Medicare spending in check would only save about $2 billion over 10 years- a drop in the bucket compared to the bill's $1 trillion price tag.

"In CBO's judgment, the probability is high that no savings would be realized ... but there is also a chance that substantial savings might be realized. Looking beyond the 10-year budget window, CBO expects that this proposal would generate larger but still modest savings on the same probabilistic basis," CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf wrote in a letter to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer on Saturday.

On his White House blog, Orszag – who served as CBO director in 2007 and 2008 – downplayed the office's small probable savings number in favor of the proposal's more speculative long-term benefits.

"The point of the proposal, however, was never to generate savings over the next decade. ... Instead, the goal is to provide a mechanism for improving quality of care for beneficiaries and reducing costs over the long term," Orszag wrote. "In other words, in the terminology of our belt-and-suspenders approach to a fiscally responsible health reform, the IMAC is a game changer not a scoreable offset."

But scoreable offsets are the immediate savings that fiscally conservative Blue Dogs and other Democratic moderates have been pushing for precisely because they will help offset the bill's cost.

The proposal's meager savings are a blow to Democrats working furiously to bring down costs in order to win support from Blue Dogs, who have threatened to vote against the bill without significant changes. The proposal was heralded as a breakthrough on Tuesday after Blue Dogs and House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman emerged from the White House with agreement on giving the independent panel, rather than Congress, the ability to rein in Medicare spending.

Republicans pounced on CBO's analysis as another demonstration that Democratic proposals don't control costs.

"The President said that rising health care costs are an imminent threat to our economy and that any reform must reduce these long-term costs. But CBO has made clear once again that the Democrats' bills in Congress aren't reducing costs and in fact could just make the problem worse," said Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell.

Saturday's CBO analysis caps a tough week of blown deadlines, partisan bickering and fierce intra-party fighting among Democrats. On Friday, the tension between the Blue Dogs and Waxman exploded when Waxman threatened to bypass his committee and bring the reform bill straight to the House floor without a vote. The move infuriated Blue Dogs who have used their crucial committee votes to leverage changes to the bill.

But by late Friday, Waxman said their colleagues had pulled the two groups "back from the brink" and back to the negotiating table.

Still, Hoyer said there was little chance that that the House would pass a health reform legislation before Friday when lawmakers are expected to leave Washington for summer recess.

House Republican Leader John Boehner's office said that it's time to hit the legislation's reset button.

"This letter underscores the enormous challenges that Democrats face trying to pay for their massive and costly government takeover of health care. In their rush to pass a bill, Democrats continue to ignore the stark economic reality facing our nation," said Boehner spokeswoman Antonia Ferrier. "Let's scrap the current proposal and come together in a meaningful way to reform health care in America by reducing cost, expanding access and at a price tag we can afford."

 

[Gonz]

Where did I say that? Link?

I'm sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your postion. You saying that healthcare is not a right & all people are not deserving of care?