how do I fix rust on my car?

[Inkara1]

The rusted-through beam will still be able to hold up the radiator and the other stuff that's bolted to it because the welds on the wide that hold it on are strong enough for that at first. It's like two arms coming out to the middle instead of one beam. But because it's two arms instead of one beam, it will allow the body to flex a little more as you go over bumps, etc. Plus, any upforces or downforces on the beam from the normal course of driving (say, when you hit a pothole and one corner of the car rapidly goes down and then back up) will put more stress on the welds on one side because the other side wont be available to help take some of the load off, meaning the welds holding the support beam will weaken over time.

Will the beam rusting through instantly change the car from a well-handling sports sedan into a danger to society? Probably not... but keep in mind that any car company looking to make a profit isn't going to spend the money on the steel, welding, etc. to put in a crossmember that the car doesn't really need.

 

[Inkara1]

As you can see from the diagram from the service manual, the top radiator support is awfully thin, while the bottom one, which was rusting, is a lot thicker.

 

[Altron]

What makes me nervous is this:

There's a long bar that bolts between like the firewall, and the rusted out bar. There is definitely a motor mount on that bar.

 

[JTP]

Part of me wants to ask how a boy reaches adulthood without learning such essentials as how to weld, but I see that I'm in the vanishingly small minority on that one. 'm not even sure my son knows how although I offered to teach him multiple times.[/QUOTE]

Good on you! Kids (boys and girls both) should be taught basic "life skills", -how to swim, how to change a flat tire, change the oil and filter, how to budget money and balance a checkbook, file taxes, first aid, CPR, self-defense, etc. Young children are eager to learn, but so many aren't being taught jack. Shame on parents who bring kids into the world and then ignore them!
Giving your children practical living skills is the best favor you can do for them. It's not a favor, it's a responsibility.

 

[Professur]

In Unibody cars, there's no 'non-structural' anything. That's the difference between this POS and my POS pickup. If I was of a mind, I could haul the cab right off my frame and still drive it about. You have no frame, period. Every piece of your car is an engineered structural member of great importance. The example I was given as a kid was ... my pickup is a cardboard box sitting on a dolly. Your car, the wheels are glued to the side of the box, with perhaps a second layer of cardboard glued in to stiffen the attachment points. So long as the cardboard of your box isn't damaged, dinged, cut, etc .. it's strong. But as with any shipping box, any damage to any side renders the entire box useless. That's why city accidents scrap so many cars now. A front end collision can require the entire front of the car, including the firewall to be replaced. My pickup .... probably would require new bumper brackets. But the other side of the coin is ... you'd probably have a stiff neck for a few days. I'd be in traction, with a busted collarbone (shoulder belt) wrenched shoulder, and quite likely a dislocated hip.

 

[Professur]

My dad doesn't know how to weld, so there isn't anyone I could learn it from.

You're how old again? Noone taught me. I picked up a cheap welder and started practicing. Then I got online, found a group, read, read, read, and hit the bricks again, and again, and again until I started getting something resembling good welds. A cheap flux core welder can be had new for under $100. A decent sunday's yard sale browse would probably net you one for $30. You're not gonna get professional welds with it, but it's how you start. Then you sell it and invest in something decent.

Your local community college almost certainly has classes if you're really interested.

 

[Inkara1]

If I were to get interested, a lot of the guys on my mom's side of the family know a lot about welding... particularly my grandpa, who would charge a lot of money just to turn on the machine to weld aluminum.

 

[Inkara1]

Good on you! Kids (boys and girls both) should be taught basic "life skills", -how to swim, how to change a flat tire, change the oil and filter, how to budget money and balance a checkbook, file taxes, first aid, CPR, self-defense, etc.

When my dad bought the 1962 Fairlane, it was to teach me how to drive, and also how to work on a car. Even now on the newer daily driver cars, I do as much of my own work as possible, only leaving it to a shop if it's something I don't have the specialized tools and garage/shop space to do right. I've replaced a CV boot before, but the timing belt on the Neon I left to the pros. The Malibu has the 3.1 V6 which had terrible-quality intake manifold gaskets from the factory. They were changed right before I bought the car (it's a $900 job) with what are supposed to be better quality gaskets (they probaly used the Fel-Pro ones from the local NAPA instead of the OEM ones), but if I ever need to do it again, because of where they are I wouldn't be afraid to do the job myself.

 

[JTP]

When my dad bought the 1962 Fairlane, it was to teach me how to drive, and also how to work on a car. Even now on the newer daily driver cars, I do as much of my own work as possible, only leaving it to a shop if it's something I don't have the specialized tools and garage/shop space to do right. I've replaced a CV boot before, but the timing belt on the Neon I left to the pros. The Malibu has the 3.1 V6 which had terrible-quality intake manifold gaskets from the factory. They were changed right before I bought the car (it's a $900 job) with what are supposed to be better quality gaskets (they probaly used the Fel-Pro ones from the local NAPA instead of the OEM ones), but if I ever need to do it again, because of where they are I wouldn't be afraid to do the job myself.

Ach, a friend has a Malibu with the V6. I told her to trade as soon as possible. Chevy has made some good engines, but lemons as well.
Old Joke:
Q: What does Chevrolet stand for?
A: Can Hear Every Valve, Rocker Or Lifter Every Time

 

[Altron]

I try to do stuff myself, when I can. I have installed the radio myself. I know how to change fuses, and replace bulbs, and I installed the battery in my Olds.

I don't think I want to mess around with a cheap welder of questionable quality, with no proper safety instruction or equipment. The safety risks, IMO, outweigh the potential savings.

I'm comfortable with woodworking and most household electrical stuff, but I don't think I could weld my car together without either maiming myself, or having the weld come undone while driving.

 

[Professur]

Do you get the Speed network?


In this case, you're not 'welding a car together'. All you'd do it tack weld a replacement plate of the same thickness into the place where you'd cut out the rusty bit. You actually don't want to weld well in this case. You really wind up using the welder more like a hot glue gun for this stuff. You tack the corners, then slowly work around the piece, hopping about to avoid concentrating too much heat in any one area (causes warping). As for having the weld come undone ... how would that be any worse than what you've got right now?

Safety? Safety is simple. Don't become part of the circuit. The energy of the welder goes from the tip of the gun, back to the ground clamp. Don't put anything you value between point a and point b and you can't get shocked. Hot sparks? They don't hurt that much, they're not big enough to retain their heat long. Standard safetywear, gloves that don't allow a hot spark in the cuff, all cotton clothing, and a good cheap auto-dark helmet from Northern Tool and you're good to go.

Cost? Only you've got it, you've got it. I'm not lying when I say you'll suddenly find use for it all over the place. People treat a guy with a welder like they do a guy with a pickup.

But, as you say, you're not comfortable doing it .... but if the job needs done, it needs done. Really only has 4 possible outcomes. You do it right yourself. You pay someone else to do it right for you. You do it wrong, in which case you probably should never have started in the first place. Or, you ignore the whole thing, which does nothing worse than doing it wrong, and at best means that whoever comes behind you doesn't have to clean a screwup out of his way on the way to doing it right.

 

[Inkara1]

Ach, a friend has a Malibu with the V6. I told her to trade as soon as possible. Chevy has made some good engines, but lemons as well.

I grew up in a Ford family and my family has had good luck with Fords. But the Malibu was available with a decent amount of miles and the features I wanted for a payment I could afford, so that's why I bought it. I recently took it to Bakersfield and back and got 31 miles to the gallon. From the reading I've done online, the intake manifold gasket is a widespread problem but otherwise the engine is as close to a sure bet as you'll get from an American automaker. Since the gasket was already done with a better quality one, I should be good to go.

 

[JTP]

"People treat a guy with a welder like they do a guy with a pickup". -Professur *

-That's so damn true!

*(sorry bout cut&paste- old habits die hard)

 

[tonksy]

Speaking of which...when you visiting again, Prof? I got's some stuff needs to go to the dump

 

[JTP]

I grew up in a Ford family and my family has had good luck with Fords. But the Malibu was available with a decent amount of miles and the features I wanted for a payment I could afford, so that's why I bought it. I recently took it to Bakersfield and back and got 31 miles to the gallon. From the reading I've done online, the intake manifold gasket is a widespread problem but otherwise the engine is as close to a sure bet as you'll get from an American automaker. Since the gasket was already done with a better quality one, I should be good to go.

Yeah, if it's getting the job done, you've got a good car. 31 mpg is good and if you're having no other grief, keep 'er. I've just heard a lot of folks moaning and groaning about the Chevy v6 around here. You live in a less humid environment. The ones around here have asthma. Bring back the carbourator!

 

[Nixy]

"People treat a guy with a welder like they do a guy with a pickup". -Professur *

-That's so damn true!

*(sorry bout cut&paste- old habits die hard)

hehehe agreed. Atleast when I need my friend's truck I switch vehicles for a day, I don't ask him to run around the city with me doing my errands that involve transporting large items.

 

[Altron]

Do you get the Speed network?


In this case, you're not 'welding a car together'. All you'd do it tack weld a replacement plate of the same thickness into the place where you'd cut out the rusty bit. You actually don't want to weld well in this case. You really wind up using the welder more like a hot glue gun for this stuff. You tack the corners, then slowly work around the piece, hopping about to avoid concentrating too much heat in any one area (causes warping). As for having the weld come undone ... how would that be any worse than what you've got right now?

Safety? Safety is simple. Don't become part of the circuit. The energy of the welder goes from the tip of the gun, back to the ground clamp. Don't put anything you value between point a and point b and you can't get shocked. Hot sparks? They don't hurt that much, they're not big enough to retain their heat long. Standard safetywear, gloves that don't allow a hot spark in the cuff, all cotton clothing, and a good cheap auto-dark helmet from Northern Tool and you're good to go.

Cost? Only you've got it, you've got it. I'm not lying when I say you'll suddenly find use for it all over the place. People treat a guy with a welder like they do a guy with a pickup.

But, as you say, you're not comfortable doing it .... but if the job needs done, it needs done. Really only has 4 possible outcomes. You do it right yourself. You pay someone else to do it right for you. You do it wrong, in which case you probably should never have started in the first place. Or, you ignore the whole thing, which does nothing worse than doing it wrong, and at best means that whoever comes behind you doesn't have to clean a screwup out of his way on the way to doing it right.

I'm not really sure that the Hoboken police would approve of me dropping a 100 foot extension cord out of my 6th floor window, then running it across the sidewalk to my welder, so that I can weld things onto my car while parked in the fire lane.

 

[JTP]

I'm not really sure that the Hoboken police would approve of me dropping a 100 foot extension cord out of my 6th floor window, then running it across the sidewalk to my welder, so that I can weld things onto my car while parked in the fire lane.

Sucks living in the city, doesn't it?
My neighbor K. took a deer in her garden down with her crossbow. Helped her gut and skin it and took it to the butcher's. She's going to tan the hide. Our freezers will soon be full.
Can't imagine being prohibited from working on your own auto. Weld away and tell the Hoboken Police to kiss yer ass!

 

[Altron]

Sucks living in the city, doesn't it?
My neighbor K. took a deer in her garden down with her crossbow. Helped her gut and skin it and took it to the butcher's. She's going to tan the hide. Our freezers will soon be full.
Can't imagine being prohibited from working on your own auto. Weld away and tell the Hoboken Police to kiss yer ass!

If I had a garage or even a driveway, I'd buy a welder. But I don't, and I go to school year-round. I get about 3 weeks for christmas, a week for easter, and 4-day weekends for 4th of july and thanksgiving. No sort of extended vacation.

 

[tonksy]

Sucks living in the city, doesn't it?
My neighbor K. took a deer in her garden down with her crossbow. Helped her gut and skin it and took it to the butcher's. She's going to tan the hide. Our freezers will soon be full.
Can't imagine being prohibited from working on your own auto. Weld away and tell the Hoboken Police to kiss yer ass!

The only deer around my neighborhood are bronze or stone. I am jealous of your freezer stash.