spike
New Member
Were those guys terrorists or insurgents?
I kept saying this and the Libs, here, denied it.
- Thread starter jimpeel
- Start date
Were those guys terrorists or insurgents?
spike
New Member
Holy shit, you mean you're going to stop making up stuff? Great!
2minkey
bootlicker
this has nothing with me. it has to do with the relevant topic. the founders of the US and the founding documents were highly influenced by the enlightenment. read some fucking history. if you're willing to even bother to try to understand the shit you yourself are commenting on, then get lost... and nix the drama while you're at it.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
I've read plenty enough homeboy. I have a great understanding of the founding fathers and their writings. It's quite clear there was to be no state sponsored religion such as there was in England. Without a doubt, the days of America rising was dominated with the Judeo Christian values system. There was little of the modern eastern influences nor was islam making any ground here. You seem to implying one cannot get enlightenment via the judeo-christian religions. Being good christian was hip.
Isn't it interesting; While we don't have a national religion, we do have a National Cathedral?
spike
New Member
Wrong, enlightenment values and values most religions share.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you.
2minkey
bootlicker
this has nothing to do with islam or "the modern eastern influences." you're confusing enlightenment with the enlightenment. which means you have little understanding of the founding fathers and where their ideas came from.
here, read about locke. i dare you to read the whole thing.
Winky
Well-Known Member
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
now, wait a minute ... are you daring me to read the WHOLE WIKI PAGE on John Locke? I will have to tell my wife to move aside that dog-eared copy of Leviathan she keeps beside the toilet with all the yellow stickies in it!
The battle for my mind...A man only has so much time.
You're aware you defeat your own argument citing Locke, right?
spike
New Member
Nope, I've addressed all your posts. You, on the other hand, keep ignoring simple questions.
"And declaring us not a christian nation would change what?"
2minkey
bootlicker
oh? how's that?
2minkey
bootlicker
you've provided evidence that folks happened to be christians. you've provided nothing about the foundational ideas behind, say, the declaration of independence, which has it's philosophical roots stemming directly from enlightenment-era thought. i don't care what your so-called evidence says. we could do a study of documents right now and conclude that romance novels are the basis of our civilization, because there's just so many of those things in print.
next you're going to claim that capitalism is a christian invention. i mean, golly, lots of capitalists have been christian.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Have you even read Locke?
Locke was a believer. Locke believed that a "higher power" was what guided man, and man was good. He was strong in the thought; While there should be no state sponsored religion, he also believed the the JudeoChristian belief system was what guides good men, men like elected politicians. he believed that there were many forms of the JudeoChristian belief system and not any of them was more correct than any other brand. He liked the idea of many different brands of JudeoChristian religion working together supporting their own brand in the government for the people. He saw an equualibruim being reached as the debates and establishment developed.
Hobb's on the other hand didn't buy that man was good like that. He believed that good men would indulge themselves once they had the powah in their grimey-mitts. He felt that men of strong JudeoChristian faith would stray from their beliefs once they tasted the power they had. Hobb's wanted a very strict legal code to govern by. He didn't trust men to govern by those good JudeoChristian values.
You can see that we use a little of both in our nations foundation. But then again, these guys aren't our founding fathers are they?
I've got a date with a hammock this week-end. i look forward to you educating me on this.
Have a great weekend my friend.
2minkey
bootlicker
no, locke was not a founding father, but some of his ideas certainly did influence the founding fathers.
locke may have rooted some of his ideas in his faith, but his faith is not what is important as far as him being a contributor of enlightenment ideas, but rather a 'survival' of previous ways of thinking.
ever hear of deism? locke wasn't a deist, but many of his successors were, who carried some of his other ideas along. you seem to have a very unidimensional understanding of locke. but, then, you want him to represent something particular that you believe in, rather than approaching the matter dispassionately.
next you're going to try to tell us that voltaire's ideas all stem from the fact that he happened to have a basic belief in a creator god, and by that are "christian."
enjoy your hammock. i'm going to go get shit-faced in a couple hours...
It would change nothing.
spike
New Member
So being a christian nation or not changes nothing. Who gives a shit then and why?
Being a Christian nation and declaring to be a Christian nation are two different things.
By the way, Obama declared the U.S. "no longer a Christian nation". But by doing so, he admits we once were a Christian nation.
Winky
Well-Known Member
hang all the Libs
Gothy, just cuz mullato boy sez sumthin’
don’t make it so, just so’s ya know.
Gothy, just cuz mullato boy sez sumthin’
don’t make it so, just so’s ya know.