It's Biden ...

[jimpeel]

Some of those questions are definitely loaded. I didn't particularly like this one:

1. Do you agree or disagree that laws prohibiting convicted felons and non-US citizens from voting should be more vigorously enforced?

I believe that if voting is a right then felons shoudl not have that right stripped away.

On that point I disagree.

I believe that non citizens should not vote in American elections at any level.

On that point I agree.

Then there's this:

2. Currently, 36 states have laws that allow residents to qualify for a permit to carry a firearm if they pass a background check, if they take a firearms safety-training course, and if they pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Do you support or oppose such laws?

I don't believe one should have to pay for a permit to carry a firearm. Again, it is a right and should not be taxed.

 

[spike]

Who gives a steaming pile of shit what the rest of the world thinks of America? So we install a Leftist Liberal hack in the most powerful seat on Earth to appease the rest of the world? Appeasement is the premise that if one feeds everyone else to the lions they will be eaten last.

Jim that statement is seriously lacking in logic and the misguided analogy doesn't help.

Having good relations with other countries is not appeasement. It's smart business.

Also you don't have to feed anyone to lions to appease or not appease.

 

[MrBishop]

Who gives a steaming pile of shit what the rest of the world thinks of America? So we install a Leftist Liberal hack in the most powerful seat on Earth to appease the rest of the world? Appeasement is the premise that if one feeds everyone else to the lions they will be eaten last.

We should not be the appeasers of the world.

...and then you wonder why your country is the target of terrorism, and your flags are burnt in the streets, and "Death to America" is screamed aloud by people who don't otherwise speak English.

The USA is not the center of the universe.

It imports more than it exports, and if you'd like that particular equation to change for the positive, foreign relations is the way to go.
If you want other GVT intelligence to share information about potential threats to your country, you'd better have good relations with them.
If you want to extradite criminals from other countries for trial back the the USA, you'd better have good relations, etc etc...

 

[2minkey]

Jim that statement is seriously lacking in logic and the misguided analogy doesn't help.

Having good relations with other countries is not appeasement. It's smart business.

Also you don't have to feed anyone to lions to appease or not appease.

it doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. the intent was simply to inject some level of do-or-die drama... some freedom lovin,' commie "left wing liberal hack job" bashing kinda macho that amurika needs! for amurikans!

*also tends to indicate feelings of personal powerlessness. like clinging to religion. or guns.*

 

[Gato_Solo]

...and then you wonder why your country is the target of terrorism, and your flags are burnt in the streets, and "Death to America" is screamed aloud by people who don't otherwise speak English.

The USA is not the center of the universe.

Nice rant...but a bit off target, donchathink? Most terrorist organizations that spew that pap are attacking something else. Most of the time Israel. Another thing to consider is this...most of this started spinning out of control after the collapse of the USSR, so it could also be based on inertia.

It imports more than it exports, and if you'd like that particular equation to change for the positive, foreign relations is the way to go.
If you want other GVT intelligence to share information about potential threats to your country, you'd better have good relations with them.
If you want to extradite criminals from other countries for trial back the the USA, you'd better have good relations, etc etc...

And that is not what I got out of his statement. What I got was this...WE elect our leader, not anyone else. WE don't try to meddle in your internal affairs, so stay the hell out of ours. We may have opinions about your leaders, but when have we discussed their foibles in this forum to the degree you seem to be discussing ours?

 

[Cerise]

...and then you wonder why your country is the target of terrorism, and your flags are burnt in the streets, and "Death to America" is screamed aloud by people who don't otherwise speak English.

It doesn't matter if they like us or not, as long as they fear us!

The USA is not the center of the universe.

http://www.northstarwriters.com/jw032.htm

At the end of the day, much of the world still watches our movies, wears our clothing, benefits from our technology, enjoys the free travel of the seas that our Navy secures and looks to us for help when a disaster befalls or an enemy threatens. They may say they don't like us, but it is sometimes hard to believe when so many want to be us.

 

[MrBishop]

What I got was this...WE elect our leader, not anyone else. WE don't try to meddle in your internal affairs, so stay the hell out of ours. We may have opinions about your leaders, but when have we discussed their foibles in this forum to the degree you seem to be discussing ours?

Since when does the USA keep out of other people's elections and leaders? That's a laughable statement.

If you're talking about discussing Canadian politics, I'd agree... our politics are rarely discussed, even though we've got another election coming...before yours.

If you're discussing other countries...I'd say that talk about Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and North Korea is discussed as fervently here.

 

[MrBishop]

What I'm trying to say is that "Foreign relations' is the face that gets put out to the world. What you do as opposed to what you say you stand for. I'm saying that Obama is and will be more popular on the world stage than McCain is and would be.

The changing of the guard, particularly to someone as personable as Obama is, will change the world's overall view of the USA as 'the bad guy/bully/world-class thug' - something that the election of McCain will certainly not do.

 

[jimpeel]

...and then you wonder why your country is the target of terrorism, and your flags are burnt in the streets, and "Death to America" is screamed aloud by people who don't otherwise speak English.

The USA is not the center of the universe.

It imports more than it exports, and if you'd like that particular equation to change for the positive, foreign relations is the way to go.
If you want other GVT intelligence to share information about potential threats to your country, you'd better have good relations with them.
If you want to extradite criminals from other countries for trial back the the USA, you'd better have good relations, etc etc...

The old "set a good example and they will follow our lead" crap is just that -- CRAP. They hate us because we are not of their religion. They hate our prosperity. They hate us because we are us. If they took over the country and the Grand Canyon were considered a Christian religious site they wuold fill it in.

That's the part you don't understand. We can do EVERYTHING for them but if we do not convert to their religion and reform our government into a Muslim theocracy they will still hate us and try to kill us.

Have you ever read Osama Bin Ladin's 4,000 WORD LETTER TO AMERICA on what is required for Islam to live in peace with America; and we would still be nothing but Dhimmis to them? Ya ever go HERE?

You have a hell of a lot to learn about the Muslim mentality and what they think of you regardless of everything you might do for them -- except die.

 

[jimpeel]

Not to be so bold as to actually drag this thread, kicking and screaming, back on topic; what of this?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/30/unlike-clinton-biden-gets-pass-saying-shot-iraq/

Unlike Clinton, Biden Gets Pass for Saying He Was 'Shot At' in Iraq

When Hillary Clinton told a tall tale about "landing under sniper fire" in Bosnia, she was accused of "inflating her war experience" by Barack Obama's campaign -- but the campaign has been silent about Joe Biden telling his own questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.

By Bill Sammon

FOXNews.com

Tuesday, September 30, 2008

When Hillary Clinton told a tall tale about "landing under sniper fire" in Bosnia, she was accused of "inflating her war experience" by rival Democrat Barack Obama's campaign.

But the campaign has been silent about Obama's running mate, Joe Biden, telling his own questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.

"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube last year. "Number one, you take all the troops out - you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."

But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."

The senior senator from Delaware went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.

"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."

The rest of the press ignored the flap at the time because Biden was viewed as having little chance of ending up on the Democratic presidential ticket. But even after Biden was selected to be Obama's running mate last month, his claim to have been "shot at" drew no scrutiny from the same reporters who had savaged Clinton for making a similar claim that turned out to be false.

FOX News has been asking the Obama campaign for details of the alleged shooting in Iraq ever since Biden was tapped to be vice president. Biden campaign spokesman David Wade promised an answer last week, but failed to provide one.

Meanwhile, the gaffe-prone Biden has again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones - this time in Afghanistan. Biden said he will grill Republican rival Sarah Palin in Thursday's vice presidential debate about "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan where my helicopter was forced down."

"If you want to know where Al Qaeda lives, you want to know where Bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."

But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Senators Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.

"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."

Biden never explicitly claimed his chopper had been forced down by terrorists. Nonetheless, John McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said Obama-Biden officials have been less than forthcoming about Biden's dramatic war stories.

"They never explained Biden's helicopter story from last week - which is very similar to the story about getting 'shot at' in Baghdad," Rogers said.

Bill Sammon is deputy Washington managing editor for FOX News Channel.

 

[spike]

The old "set a good example and they will follow our lead" crap is just that -- CRAP. They hate us because we are not of their religion. They hate our prosperity. They hate us because we are us. If they took over the country and the Grand Canyon were considered a Christian religious site they wuold fill it in.

That's the part you don't understand. We can do EVERYTHING for them but if we do not convert to their religion and reform our government into a Muslim theocracy they will still hate us and try to kill us.

Have you ever read Osama Bin Ladin's 4,000 WORD LETTER TO AMERICA on what is required for Islam to live in peace with America; and we would still be nothing but Dhimmis to them? Ya ever go HERE?

You have a hell of a lot to learn about the Muslim mentality and what they think of you regardless of everything you might do for them -- except die.

Bish was talking mainly about relations with foreign countries not muslims. But that didn't stop you from making inane generalizations about all muslims did it?

Osama does not represent a large portion of muslims, many muslims are in fact Americans (I know that's a shock right). Muslims do not hate us...some muslims do...so do some christians.

It may surprise you to find out all Americans are not christians.

You once again have used sweeping generalizations and baseless claims instead of and kind of rationalility. You hate muslims because they are muslims because they are them, that is bigotry. Promoting shit like this is what gets buildings full of Americans gassed like in the other thread.

You obviously have a hell of a lot to learn about muslims and religion in general it seems.

"They hate us for our prosperity"

 

[MrBishop]

T

Have you ever read Osama Bin Ladin's 4,000 WORD LETTER TO AMERICA on what is required for Islam to live in peace with America; and we would still be nothing but Dhimmis to them? Ya ever go HERE?

You have a hell of a lot to learn about the Muslim mentality and what they think of you regardless of everything you might do for them -- except die.

Have YOU read it or did you stop where they asked you to follow the precepts of Allah?
Did you stop there and decry "They want us to subject themselves to us and our God?"

I'm wondering if you even got to this:

(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.

What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"

 

[MrBishop]

Jim...try HERE
It's called Jihad Unspun: Don't let the name fool you. It's a new-site which talks about the War on Terrorism...from all sides.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Since when does the USA keep out of other people's elections and leaders? That's a laughable statement.

Show me where...in the past 10 years...that the US has involved itself in another countries elections that we weren't at war with, or haven't been fomenting terrorism.

If you're talking about discussing Canadian politics, I'd agree... our politics are rarely discussed, even though we've got another election coming...before yours.

If you're discussing other countries...I'd say that talk about Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and North Korea is discussed as fervently here.

Basic answer...stay out of our election. We are not involved in yours.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Have YOU read it or did you stop where they asked you to follow the precepts of Allah?
Did you stop there and decry "They want us to subject themselves to us and our God?"

I'm wondering if you even got to this:

What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of your signature on any agreement or treaty?"

The agreement/treaty covering this is called the Geneva Convention. Take a peek at that treaty and find where it talks about 'illegal combatants'. You can spin it any way you like, but thats your answer.

 

[MrBishop]

It's a long read in legaleeze. The definition of 'illegal combatant' is argued over all over the place..including human right's watch places.

Tell me...does being an 'illegal combatant' remove all human rights from a person?

 

[Gato_Solo]

It's a long read in legaleeze. The definition of 'illegal combatant' is argued over all over the place..including human right's watch places.

Tell me...does being an 'illegal combatant' remove all human rights from a person?

To a certain extent...yes. You know that 'illegal combatants' are not afforded the protection of a regular fighting force, so shooting them upon capture is legally okay. Ethically repugnant, but legally okay. How's that for your 'human rights' argument? Wanna play war? Play by the rules and you are afforded protections. Not too hard a decision if you ask me...

 

[MrBishop]

They also include spies, saboteurs and contracted warriors under the 'illegal combatant' rule.

 

[2minkey]

Show me where...in the past 10 years...that the US has involved itself in another countries elections that we weren't at war with, or haven't been fomenting terrorism.



Basic answer...stay out of our election. We are not involved in yours.

the US has a MASSIVE history of inserting itself into the affairs of other nations. i can't believe you typed that. to arbitrarily cap it at 10 years is to do great disservice to that glorious history, and to practice a puny form of the 'creative statistics' you've made a second career outta lampooning. who are you trying to kid? no dessert for you.

 

[Gato_Solo]

They also include spies, saboteurs and contracted warriors under the 'illegal combatant' rule.

Yep...and they can be shot on sight. What's your point?