Racism as a self-fulfilling prophesy

[MrBishop]

Here's the theory...racism exists. We all know that it does. Some of us may even face it daily, either directed at us, or happening around us. It has made certain groups sensitive, and sometimes overly sensitive to what's happening around them. When one generation has been faced with outright racism and the effects of it, they are more likely to pass on their fears and opinions onto the next generation. This is how racism and victimization propagates.

Question: Can a former victim of racism pass on the over-sensitivity of others (past victimizers) onto their children and the children of others? Would this make these children more apt to see racism in the most innocent of acts or statements?

Here is the situation...this really happened.

My mother in law and my son were walking along a sidewalk close to her home. They crossed paths with a black woman and her two children. My son (who, BTW is only 14 months old) stopped in his tracks and hid behind his Abuela (Grandmother). This is normal for him and all children when meeting strangers. Right?

Not for this woman though...she saw something that wasn't there. My mother-in-law described the look on this woman's face as one of stunned insolence. She then leaned down to her children and told them... "He's afraid of us because we're black".

Now...not to take away from the seriousness of this thread but...What the fuck??!?

I thus present this as an example of racism as a self-fulfilling prophecy. This woman's children are being fed on the ideas that they will be feared and hated by those who are not like them. They will eventually start believing her and act as if this is the case. Voila...reverse racism!

Will this never end?

 

[Luis G]

I wish i had something smarter to say other than i agree.

 

[Raven]

I agree. Racism is innured into youngsters by negative reinforcement. If your mother was black (or some other racial group) and had been the victim or racism all or her life she would have a very negative outlook on her abusers. As you would see and hear your mother talking about this you would come to take this as your point of view as the childs mind is very impressionable. In time this would be passed onto the kids kids and itjust ends up as a vicious circle. Therefore the only way not to pass it on is to wrap kids up in cotton wool till they are old enough to formulate their own opinions (I will refrain from using the word judgements here). Got this lecture from my brother when I made the mistake of saying psycomology was hooeey

 

[PT]

Yep, very good observation Bish. And you are absolutely right. That mother probably was told the same thing by her mother or father when she was a little girl, and has grown up expecting this to happen. Does seem to be a never-ending cycle.

 

[MrBishop]

Oh...almost forgot. Being part mohawk, I've faced some racism in my past (especially as a youth when I had the long hair and got more sun). AND my son is half-Spanish, 1/4 caucasian and 1/4 Mohawk

He ain't axacly a little white-boy either, ya know?

 

[freako104]

maybe but shell never see that bish. im sorry to sya it that way but shell never see it and racists will never see beyind their hate. a friend of mine was in Union Station(DC) and he has a patch on his jacket that says "against racism" and some woman went upto him and said "you fucking honkey!!! funny as that sounds to me its not since he only got that since hes white. and ive met heterophobic gay people. some people will twist it and make it seem like everyone is out for them annoying as all hell it is. and pathetic.

 

[MrBishop]

Therefore the only way not to pass it on is to wrap kids up in cotton wool till they are old enough to formulate their own opinions (I will refrain from using the word judgements here). Got this lecture from my brother when I made the mistake of saying psycomology was hooeey

I would think that there were better ways than wrapping them in wool. It's just that some people are stuck in the past...they don't see society changeing. Racism is less 'there' than it was 40-60 years ago, when there were white-only busses and restaurants. The situation has ameliorated somewhat....it's not gone, but still...if people insist on living in the past, they will forever be forced into the same errors. Perhaps if the parents could have their eyes pried open before they have kids, thenthe situation wouldn't be so prevalent.

 

[IDLEchild]

I thus present this as an example of racism as a self-fulfilling prophecy. This woman's children are being fed on the ideas that they will be feared and hated by those who are not like them. They will eventually start believing her and act as if this is the case. Voila...reverse racism!

But it is mostly true....she is only preparing them for what will likely be a true outcome. I doubt she has the mentality or the strength to raise her kids to be beyond that and have them go on to educate others of the true strengths of African American culture. She is preparing them for the truth. You may not but many people do get scared when they see a group of young, black, guys walking down the street and they are about to pass by them all alone....10X the fear if it is late at night.

 

[chcr]

[QUOTE="MrBishop]Will this never end? [/QUOTE]
Unlikely, IMO.

 

[PT]

I get scared anytime I pass by a large group of young men. Black or white. The clothes they are wearing and the attitudes they are displaying say alot more to me than the color of their skin.

 

[Squiggy]

I have a habit of asking what caused a statement whenever someone makes a racist remark in my prescence. Usually, by the end of the conversation, I have managed to make them realize that their fear is of the desperation of poverty that the subject displayed. Not for the color of their skin. Usually, my conversations would be with a white male who has just desparaged a black or group of blacks. Almost without fail, I can get them to admit that they would have no problem with a well spoken, well dressed black. Then I ask if they would feel comfortable around a group of whites displaying an impoverished, undereducated attidude. And they start to understand that it is the poverty and the desperation it carries that scares them.

 

[MrBishop]

I agree...but racism is a gut reaction. Few actually have time to think on it before they react, much less analyse their reactions. They don't see that far into themselves, or rather, refuse to do so.

 

[IDLEchild]

I agree...but racism is a gut reaction. Few actually have time to think on it before they react, much less analyse their reactions. They don't see that far into themselves, or rather, refuse to do so.

The problem with mankind...taking the easy way out.

 

[greenfreak]

My parents are big time racists and bigots. I choose to look at them as the bad example and to learn how *not* to be. It is possible to reverse it through sheer will because I didn't have any outside sources influence that value in me. I just knew it was wrong. This is my biggest beef with my parents.

But on the same token, yes, it absolutely can be ingrained from a young age. My sister is following in my parent's footsteps, not liking it when her kids play with other kids who aren't white. She knows better than to try to get me on her side about that but it doesn't stop her.

Squiggs, sounds like you got lucky with the people you've talked to, or they were just placating you. People who are real racists aren't going to be swayed by one conversation, believe me, I've tried. But if enough people do the same, maybe they might doubt their feelings in time. I don't hold out hope though for anyone else, all I can do is present my own opinion and choose to disagree.

 

[Squiggy]

Most racism exhibitions are knee-jerk and generalized bull...But I know what you mean about hard core racist, gf....Luckily, I've not bumped into one for quite a while...

 

[chcr]

I get scared anytime I pass by a large group of young men. Black or white. The clothes they are wearing and the attitudes they are displaying say alot more to me than the color of their skin.

I know just what you mean.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Here's the theory...racism exists. We all know that it does. Some of us may even face it daily, either directed at us, or happening around us. It has made certain groups sensitive, and sometimes overly sensitive to what's happening around them. When one generation has been faced with outright racism and the effects of it, they are more likely to pass on their fears and opinions onto the next generation. This is how racism and victimization propagates.

Question: Can a former victim of racism pass on the over-sensitivity of others (past victimizers) onto their children and the children of others? Would this make these children more apt to see racism in the most innocent of acts or statements?

Here is the situation...this really happened.

My mother in law and my son were walking along a sidewalk close to her home. They crossed paths with a black woman and her two children. My son (who, BTW is only 14 months old) stopped in his tracks and hid behind his Abuela (Grandmother). This is normal for him and all children when meeting strangers. Right?

Not for this woman though...she saw something that wasn't there. My mother-in-law described the look on this woman's face as one of stunned insolence. She then leaned down to her children and told them... "He's afraid of us because we're black".

Now...not to take away from the seriousness of this thread but...What the fuck??!?

I thus present this as an example of racism as a self-fulfilling prophecy. This woman's children are being fed on the ideas that they will be feared and hated by those who are not like them. They will eventually start believing her and act as if this is the case. Voila...reverse racism!

Will this never end?

It will end when we're all on a slab. Here's the deal, as I see it.

For over 400 years, the US had a rather ugly, and ongoing problem. It started with the first settlers. What it was was placing some folks in a superior position over others. Native Americans were looked down on because of their way of life, and were not classified as human. Slaves were looked down upon because they were not classified as human, either. Then came the civil war. Now blacks are considered human, but not human enough to be in 'polite society', so now we have segregation. This period also began the 'Indian wars', where the folks who lived in the US first were systematically removed from their land and placed in areas not to their liking, because they didn't fit into 'polite society'. Funny thing is...the folks who were former slaves, in trying to become 'polite society', were the ones ho moved the Native Americans onto the reservations. Sad, but true.
Now we come to the 'Jim Crow' era. Still not part of 'polite society', most blacks are relegted to servile jobs. Any education we wanted had to come from another black person. As a result, we start to become prosperous in our own right. Then comes the Tulsa Oklahoma bombing. The hopes and dreams of another entire generation are destroyed over a period of 3 days. WWI comes, and, once again, the bugle calls. Blacks are not permitted to fight, because of fear that we'll kill our US personnel first, so we are relegated to being cooks, supply personnel, and any other job that 'polite society' deemed too menial for other races. Some of US blacks, however, fought with honor and dignity under the French and the British. We arrived back in the US, and were immediately stripped of whatever moral dignity we had by being relegated, once more, to menial tasks. Flash forward to WWII. The real start of the civil rights movement was in this time period. 19 years before Martin Luther King, Blacks, Native Americans, Latinos, and whites all served in a war that would decide the fate of the world for 40 years...all in our own regiments. Once again, our worth was proven, time and time again, but what waited for us when we returned home? Tuskegee Airmen returning were arrested by stateside MP's because "black people didn't have the intelligence to fly an airplane", and obviously stole the wings that they were wearing. "Black people are cowards", and medals earned in combat were removed from them publically. Shame and disgrace. Up until this point and time, blacks would swallow that trash and go back to what was expected, but WWII changed that. We were restless as a people, and were no longer content to sit and wait to be accepted any longer. Move onward to the civil rights act and today. To say that there is no longer a problem with racism is to bury your head in the sand. It exists because memories are long, and history shows us every day what it is, what it was, and, unfortunately, what it will be. To blame one group over the other is to avoid tackling the issue altogether. Today, it seems, everyone is a victim, whther you've paid the price or not. We do this because that is what we expect. That is what makes us victims. Don't do what they expect us to do. Do what we feel is right. To some, that kind of sentiment makes me an right-wing extremist. To them I say, you've missed the point. To others, I'm a left-wing fanatic. They've missed the point, also. I say what I believe is right, and I do what I feel is right. Sometimes I get into trouble, sometimes I get ignored, but sometimes I actually get through to somebody, and that makes everything worthwhile.

I didn't go on about what happened to native Americans, Asians, and Latinos for one reason. I don't have the experience to tell their story. I leave that for those who know.

 

[freako104]

you maynot have the experience for latinios or asians or Native AMericans but i and im sure others can thank you for your insight to this Gato. plus i learned that the Jim Crow came after the Civial War. I thought his laws were made before the Civial War so thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Camelyn]

My parents are big time racists and bigots. I choose to look at them as the bad example and to learn how *not* to be. It is possible to reverse it through sheer will because I didn't have any outside sources influence that value in me. I just knew it was wrong. This is my biggest beef with my parents.

I discovered, much later in life, that my father has certain prejudices. I wouldn't say racist and bigot doesn't apply either. I have discovered that he does prejudge "those people (insert racial/cultural descriptive here)" on the basis of race. However, I cannot for the life of me recall a single incident while growing up where he made any negative reference to the race of an individual. I never knew, until adulthood, that he had these prejudices. I firmly believe that this is the reason that I grew up without any preconceived notions about other races or cultures. Had I been blatantly exposed to it, I might not be the way I am today.

The final irony of this is that his grandkids, my 2 girls, are Greek (my mom) Irish and Scottish ( my dad), Jamaican, African, Native American, and a hodgepodge of others (their dad). He loves and adores them, not in spite of, but irregardless of their heritage.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

I'm glad you left off with native Americans Solo because this is the only real experience i have with racism. Before i make this
statement let me reiterate that these are merely my observations. Much of which i have formed over the years through watching
the media.
The black population in my area is i'm sure far less even than the rest of Alaska's 4.1% . The native American community however
consists of about 25% of the population. Not that it makes any difference what colors are involved when it comes to racism,
my point is that i really can't speak for the situation in the lower 48 from experience. That said, i have come to some
conclusions concerning the situation we find ourselves in today. There is a new phenomenon that exists within small segments
of the white population who are angry with segments of the black population. Obviously this is in itself nothing new but i think it stems from something outside of ordinary racism. When individuals have lived through the burden of racism to find themselves searching for a
comfortable medium in what is supposed to be an 'equal and just' society, one cannot always expect them to simply settle In and be at
peace. Not with the scars that such a life leaves one with and accompanied by an understandable anger. We can hope for healing to come immediately yet years of anger after such trauma should be expected. Here's where the natural evolution of these events is thrown off course however. Portions of today's black
youth has been raised accepting the word of men like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton as a gospel. They are encouraged to
believe that they have every right to feel sorry for themselves and insist that white society owes them something. I'm not saying
this isn't true in fact i will go so far as to say that it is true. Yet if our goal is to bridge a divide between peoples this is
neither the speediest nor the least painful route to solidarity and a loving coexistence. Look at what happened to Germany after
the great war. Its debt to Europe was so great that it became a burden and resulted in only more of the same conflict. This was
only an economic burden. How much greater will the debt be when the currency is measured in entire generations of bondage
and human suffering and who could ever even possibly begin make restitution for such a debt? I'm trying to make the point that my
view of these two men is more than any simple disagreement. They are extortionists who are dragging along a small but
important and outspoken percentage of the black population in their quest to blackmail large corporations. Back to the present day situation… So now this small portion of the black population not only carries this unnecessary baggage with them but they
wear it on their sleeve as if it were a badge that gives them the right to be assholes. Now it's one thing if it falls upon those who
are racist to begin with but it's another when it falls on a person who has little or no racial bias. Then it stirs up entirely new
emotions and strife in those individuals who would otherwise never have conceive of such ideas. This is one thing i have
experienced first hand. Through the media mostly yet i believe the affect is the same. This has been a subject i've become more
interested in over the past few years so i've been extra conscious of my thoughts and emotions when i'm listening to one of
these people. One thing i've noticed is the extent of the impact that even one of these people can have on a person when that
person speaks on behalf of his entire race(even though he does not). The eventual outcome is that a non racist person will hear
this person blaming them for crimes they did not commit and thus more injustice is poured out creating animosity where it need
not be. Now i can see where in many instances this would create a new negative attitude towards that group of blacks if not all
blacks depending on the individual. Then of course those blacks that carry these beliefs already feel that those whites have always been racist anyway and
those more moderate minded blacks are now in many circumstances faced with a new misdirected anger from whites where it otherwise
might not have existed in the first place. All this in my opinion is unnecessary just as racism is unnecessary. I am in no way comparing this, what i believe to be an injustice not only to whites but all people, to the racism that black Americans experience
even today. I do however from my perspective, experience and understanding as a white male acknowledge it as something i perceive
to be compounding the issues and slowing the healing process.
Yikes. By this point most of you have probably moved onto the next thread. Sorry about dragging this out and probably wandering
off into the unknown but these issues have sparked increasing concern in me over the past couple of years so this is what spewed forth after reading through the thread. I actually wasn’t finished but I feel like I made my primary point so I’ll spare everyone and cut it short.
I hope someone understands what i was attempting to communicate.

For all i know i'm a blind man on a broken path.