a13antichrist
New Member
Squiggy said:
Ooooh which gallery is that exhibition showing at?
Racism as a self-fulfilling prophesy
- Thread starter MrBishop
- Start date
Ooooh which gallery is that exhibition showing at?
greenfreak
New Member
Hex, I've read it as I did all the posts in this thread.
I get your jist and agree with you but where's the solution? As Gato said, wounds take a long time to heal and people's memories are long... we shouldn't begrudge them that... but a whole new generation of people are made to feel guilty for the hateful ignorant things their ancestors did and wonder, "Why am I being blamed? What did I do?" thus their animosty grows because they see people who just want to complain about things that happened years ago instead of helping themselves. It's a viscous cycle.
I know all about the atrocious things that have been done to native Indians and black people and I feel shamed that it happened, just as I feel shamed at what the US has done to other countries. But just as all black people cannot be judged by the same stick, neither can I. I can only police myself and if I had them (which I won't but
), my children. Even just to stop furthering that kind of prejudice to the next generation is something.
I get your jist and agree with you but where's the solution? As Gato said, wounds take a long time to heal and people's memories are long... we shouldn't begrudge them that... but a whole new generation of people are made to feel guilty for the hateful ignorant things their ancestors did and wonder, "Why am I being blamed? What did I do?" thus their animosty grows because they see people who just want to complain about things that happened years ago instead of helping themselves. It's a viscous cycle.
I know all about the atrocious things that have been done to native Indians and black people and I feel shamed that it happened, just as I feel shamed at what the US has done to other countries. But just as all black people cannot be judged by the same stick, neither can I. I can only police myself and if I had them (which I won't but
), my children. Even just to stop furthering that kind of prejudice to the next generation is something.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Thank you to all whom have taken the pains to write about and help the rest of us feel a little bit more intimate with the idea or racism and it's consequences. I am truly grateful for the input and the different opinions on the matter.
I had no idea when I first began this thread, that it would bring out such a well thought out reaction from this many people. I was trying to get a better grasp on the origins of racism (Beyond the norm) and the reverse-racism that seems to be cropping up like pneumonia after a bad cold. The symptoms are similar, but the effects more long-lasting.
As for the Native American reaction, I believe that I can give you all some insight into the matter. My Grandparents and thus my father, were full-blooded Mohawk. For those of you who know my realy name, you may begin to see to which point the lives of Native Americans have been changed. My family name is Gendron, which is a french catholic name. This is my father's name as well, and also that of my grandfather...but it wasn't always the case. My grandfather was born wwith one name and died with another. The sudden change came with the church ad the civilization of the natives into "polite society'.
Until their death, my grandparents lived on a reservation, my father moved out when he got married. He doesn't look mohawk, doesn't talk the language etc...all to get away from the treatment that was to be expected. Was this the treatment that he deserved? Did my grandparents deserve it? I think not, but the new owners of the land said that they did. Now...if you'll do the math...I'm 36, my granparents did when I was 16. That's 1983...they were sill living on reservations. Reservations still exist...there are two more within 30 mins from my house.
The question of wether they exist because the 'whites' insist that they do, or because the reaction that natives face from the 'white' population forces it to exist through the acclomeration of like minds and like bodies, is a question best asked another day..perhaps, when I have more sleep in me.
Thank you again for all of your responces.
MrBishop
I had no idea when I first began this thread, that it would bring out such a well thought out reaction from this many people. I was trying to get a better grasp on the origins of racism (Beyond the norm) and the reverse-racism that seems to be cropping up like pneumonia after a bad cold. The symptoms are similar, but the effects more long-lasting.
As for the Native American reaction, I believe that I can give you all some insight into the matter. My Grandparents and thus my father, were full-blooded Mohawk. For those of you who know my realy name, you may begin to see to which point the lives of Native Americans have been changed. My family name is Gendron, which is a french catholic name. This is my father's name as well, and also that of my grandfather...but it wasn't always the case. My grandfather was born wwith one name and died with another. The sudden change came with the church ad the civilization of the natives into "polite society'.
Until their death, my grandparents lived on a reservation, my father moved out when he got married. He doesn't look mohawk, doesn't talk the language etc...all to get away from the treatment that was to be expected. Was this the treatment that he deserved? Did my grandparents deserve it? I think not, but the new owners of the land said that they did. Now...if you'll do the math...I'm 36, my granparents did when I was 16. That's 1983...they were sill living on reservations. Reservations still exist...there are two more within 30 mins from my house.
The question of wether they exist because the 'whites' insist that they do, or because the reaction that natives face from the 'white' population forces it to exist through the acclomeration of like minds and like bodies, is a question best asked another day..perhaps, when I have more sleep in me.
Thank you again for all of your responces.
MrBishop
Wacky Nacky
New Member
I myself am white (just as a FYI if anyone even cares). Okey. Read through (sorry, skipped the longer posts :$ Will save those for a later date and time ), and Squiggy you helped me realize that i am not as racist as I originally had thought. Since usually, I watch black teenagers (or at least that's what I notice that I do) as usually i'm scared they'll cop a gun. Especially with baggy, saggy jeans, and their overall "thug" attitude (I think that's the word for it...like the thug/rapper attitude where you think you're all that and shiz?) way of walking. But Squiggy made me think. If I saw a white person wearing baggy jeans saggy jeans, having the same attitude, would I worry that they'll cop a gun? Yes. In fact I think i'd probably be worried especially that the white guy would notice me, since i have noticed that we all hang out depending on skin too.
See, going with the skin also has culture. A way of talking and walking and all that. And mostly I'm scared of black people because I am unfamiliar with their social customs and don't know what's considered rude or not, and not sure how to talk and phrase my words around them like I am with white people. So yeah. Just me 2 cents.
), and Squiggy you helped me realize that i am not as racist as I originally had thought. Since usually, I watch black teenagers (or at least that's what I notice that I do) as usually i'm scared they'll cop a gun. Especially with baggy, saggy jeans, and their overall "thug" attitude (I think that's the word for it...like the thug/rapper attitude where you think you're all that and shiz?) way of walking. But Squiggy made me think. If I saw a white person wearing baggy jeans saggy jeans, having the same attitude, would I worry that they'll cop a gun? Yes. In fact I think i'd probably be worried especially that the white guy would notice me, since i have noticed that we all hang out depending on skin too. See, going with the skin also has culture. A way of talking and walking and all that. And mostly I'm scared of black people because I am unfamiliar with their social customs and don't know what's considered rude or not, and not sure how to talk and phrase my words around them like I am with white people. So yeah. Just me 2 cents.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Even when the fences seem mended, it's more like the broken parts were hidden from view and fogotten instead. Like all rot though, it keeps cropping up. The lastest on the Native front is related to the "residential School" agreement reached between the Canadian Anglicans (the people I work for), and the Natives re: the sexual abuse/relocation/re-education of Native people (what I am/where I come from)
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/129/06/canada01.html
http://www.anglicanjournal.com/129/06/canada01.html
a13antichrist
New Member
Luis G said:
How about based on the style of clothes and how they're being worn? Two seconds' reflection will show you that this is UNIVERSAL.
a13antichrist said:
That doesn't work for me, either we can keep a conversation or we can't. I don't give special treatment to anyone, unless i've known them from a long time and they deserve extras from me, and even then, i'm still acting like myself.
a13antichrist
New Member
OK I misunderstood your post then. Special treatment, no, judging based on, yes.
breaky
New Member
and i am ever glad you did for this is very interesting indeed. here's just my opinion on how the ideas behind racism are perpetuated. it's not only just the parents responsible here, though they are ultimately reponsible for their childs attitude, but alot comes from schools and local neighboorhoods, and the need to fit in. it's the parents that are trying to teach their children the right attitude but find it hard because of their social situation who i feel most for. alot of people can't change their economic situation and thus the child ends up in a school or social environment where these attitudes are everywhere. i hate to say it but one person can't change anything here at all, it's a problem for everyone, and unless their is some major event that truly alters everyones mind set (one hell of an electrical storm, for example) i can't see any changes for the following generations. if anything it'll only get worse. our society hasn't really changed in it's attitude over the years, we are just better at denying and hiding itMrBishop said:.Nailing this thread back up for the newbies
freako104
Well-Known Member
heres one for everyone on here
would you/have you ever dated outside your race? I ask b/c it is in a way a form of racism. I would personally if she was someone i loved,related to and could trust and enjoy spending time wiht ill date anyone in any race. but shed have to be special to me for me to love her.
would you/have you ever dated outside your race? I ask b/c it is in a way a form of racism. I would personally if she was someone i loved,related to and could trust and enjoy spending time wiht ill date anyone in any race. but shed have to be special to me for me to love her.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
freako104 said:
How do you mean, freako? How would dating outside your 'race' be a form of racism? Love, AFAIK, knows no color, race, religion, etc. Either you love someone, or you don't. Personally, I've never dated someone I had no feelings for, nor have I dated someone because/in spite of their race. My only true preferences are female, and within 6 years of my age, plus or minus. I said true preferences because within those frameworks are a world of differences.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
My ex-wife is Jamaican, but mulato *no offence meant by the term*. I've had a few relationships with black ladies and one with a chinese girl.
Dating outside of my race is easier for me. I'm part-Mohawk...not a lot of Métis girls around here, and I don't really care for the ones that I have met. My wife's Spanish/Basque. It's not exactly outside of my Race per-se, but close enough for arguements sake.
I have no issues with inter-racial dating, marriages etc. Hell, some children from inter-racial couplings make for the cutest, if not healthiest, kids.
Dating outside of my race is easier for me. I'm part-Mohawk...not a lot of Métis girls around here, and I don't really care for the ones that I have met. My wife's Spanish/Basque. It's not exactly outside of my Race per-se, but close enough for arguements sake.
I have no issues with inter-racial dating, marriages etc. Hell, some children from inter-racial couplings make for the cutest, if not healthiest, kids.
Thulsa Doom
New Member
its interesting to me that there is racism but theres only one race. think about it....
as for "dating outside your race" well Ive never dated a neandertal if thats what you meant. But all joking aside I think interracial breeding is the key to the destruction of racism. more mixing! and in my opinion variety is the spice of life. I want one of every flavor. the fact that they are different only attracts me more really. foreign accents turn me on as a rule.
as for the original story at the beginning of the thread, Im the type of guy who if that happened to me would go up to that person and say something like "Hey! Youve got some really good looking kids there! Whats their names! Nice day isnt it! What playground do you take your kids too? I want to take mine to one! Its so nice to meet you!" blah blah etc. etc. Then what can they say? And more importantly her kids learn from DIRECT experience that this white guy (if I was white) and his little white kid are just normal friendly (if perhaps a little loud and annoying) people. And thats the only way to alter stereotypes. By direct interaction.
as for "dating outside your race" well Ive never dated a neandertal if thats what you meant. But all joking aside I think interracial breeding is the key to the destruction of racism. more mixing! and in my opinion variety is the spice of life. I want one of every flavor.
the fact that they are different only attracts me more really. foreign accents turn me on as a rule. as for the original story at the beginning of the thread, Im the type of guy who if that happened to me would go up to that person and say something like "Hey! Youve got some really good looking kids there! Whats their names! Nice day isnt it! What playground do you take your kids too? I want to take mine to one! Its so nice to meet you!" blah blah etc. etc. Then what can they say? And more importantly her kids learn from DIRECT experience that this white guy (if I was white) and his little white kid are just normal friendly (if perhaps a little loud and annoying) people. And thats the only way to alter stereotypes. By direct interaction.