Terrorists are pu**ies

[Shadowfax]

The Russians got into a civil war situation. Civilians got hurt, as usually happens in a war. They didn't wake up one morning and say to themselves, "let's go wipe us out a grade school." That's exactly what the terrorists in this story did.

People who take your position usually can't make this simple distinction.

oh i can make that simple distinction. my point is, that no matter who started this war, every reaction from one side is causing a reaction from the other side. the russians are fighting a war against the chechens, so they react; they occupy a grade school. of course russia will retalliate.

i'm not saying this action is the right way, but it would be a bit ackward to just ignore the things the russian army does in chechnya; they're not exactly respecting human rights over there as well.

 

[HomeLAN]

If you truly understand that duistinction, then how can you even consider anything as possible justification for the intent and actions of these terrorists?

Sick shit, man.

 

[Gonz]

They are willing to die in furtherance of an islamic state and so their place in heaven as martyrs is assured.

Islamic radical terrorists. Nothing more, nothing less. Can we quit calling them Chechyn Rebels yet?

 

[Shadowfax]

If you truly understand that duistinction, then how can you even consider anything as possible justification for the intent and actions of these terrorists?

Sick shit, man.

"i'm not saying this action is the right way" kinda makes my dissaproval clear, doesn't it?

and how can anyone even consider anything as possible justification for the brutal inhumane actions of the russian army in chechnya?

talk about looking the other way.

 

[HomeLAN]

*Shakes head in utter disbelief*
*Walks out of thread*

 

[Shadowfax]

what?! i'm NOT approving this action, NOR in any way trying to justify it. i'm merely stating the most likeable CAUSE for this action.

so what exactly is your problem with that?

 

[Gonz]

the russians are fighting a war against...

...terrorists. They are fighting a war against a group of Islamic fundamentalists who prefer to duck & cover when they are threatened directly but then climb aboard busses filled with innocent women & children, to overtake elementary schools, to go to shopping centers, where they may, at their leisure, simuntaneously (attempt to) destroy innocents, places of gathering, infrastructure & the economy.

Given the very best circumstances for their cause, upon the withdrawl of Russia, what have they left? Piles of rubble & nobody to blame but themselves.

In war, even an unjust war, there can be valor & honor. There can be victory. There will be bloodshed but it is done with a higher moral standard. Men versus men, on a battlefield, with weapons, each given a chance. There is no honor, ther is no valor in the hollowness of terrorism. under any cause.

 

[HomeLAN]

what?! i'm NOT approving this action, NOR in any way trying to justify it. i'm merely stating the most likeable CAUSE for this action.

so what exactly is your problem with that?

*walks back in*

Of course you're trying to justify it. Why bring up the Russians' past actions at all if you weren't? Certain actions aren't excusable, no matter what the lead-up. Specifically targetting civilians and carrying out attacks with that intent is one of those things.

THAT's my problem.

 

[Shadowfax]

...terrorists. They are fighting a war against a group of Islamic fundamentalists who prefer to duck & cover when they are threatened directly but then climb aboard busses filled with innocent women & children, to overtake elementary schools, to go to shopping centers, where they may, at their leisure, simuntaneously (attempt to) destroy innocents, places of gathering, infrastructure & the economy.

Given the very best circumstances for their cause, upon the withdrawl of Russia, what have they left? Piles of rubble & nobody to blame but themselves.

In war, even an unjust war, there can be valor & honor. There can be victory. There will be bloodshed but it is done with a higher moral standard. Men versus men, on a battlefield, with weapons, each given a chance. There is no honor, ther is no valor in the hollowness of terrorism. under any cause.

that's one of the problems; we call them terrorists (note the "we" part, not just "you" ) and they see themselves as rebels and even more as freedom fighters. yes, there are certain things you can and can't do, even in a unjust war. unfortunately WE think like that, and THEY don't. so they use every means to achieve their goals.
the same thing happens between israel and palestina; i'm pretty sure you would call the bombers over there terrorists as well, right?

 

[Shadowfax]

*walks back in*

Of course you're trying to justify it. Why bring up the Russians' past actions at all if you weren't? Certain actions aren't excusable, no matter what the lead-up. Specifically targetting civilians and carrying out attacks with that intent is one of those things.

THAT's my problem.

no, i am NOT justifying their actions. READ please; i'm merely pointing out cause & effect. action & reaction. WHY do these terrorists do the things they do? BECAUSE of the intervention of the russian army. the brutal actions of the russian army can pretty much be a part of the problem here. if it wasn't for that, the terrorists would have referred to other actions, perhaps.
does that justify their current actions? no. i'm trying to find an explanation for their actions, which is definately NOT the same as justifying them.

 

[HomeLAN]

no. i'm trying to find an explanation for their actions, which is definately NOT the same as justifying them.

jus·ti·fi·ca·tion Audio pronunciation of "justification" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jst-f-kshn)
n.

Something, such as a fact or circumstance, that justifies: considered misgovernment to be a justification for revolution. See Synonyms at apology.

Unreal. Yes it is. You're trying to understand a reason why they're doing it, in this case misgovernment by Russia. There can be no satisfactory why.

 

[Professur]

*walks back in*

Of course you're trying to justify it. Why bring up the Russians' past actions at all if you weren't? Certain actions aren't excusable, no matter what the lead-up. Specifically targetting civilians and carrying out attacks with that intent is one of those things.

THAT's my problem.

Not targetting civilians. Targetting children.

 

[HomeLAN]

I'm trying not to let my arguments sink to that emotional a level.

 

[Gonz]

that's one of the problems; we call them terrorists (note the "we" part, not just "you" ) and they see themselves as rebels and even more as freedom fighters. yes, there are certain things you can and can't do, even in a unjust war. unfortunately WE think like that, and THEY don't. so they use every means to achieve their goals.
the same thing happens between israel and palestina; i'm pretty sure you would call the bombers over there terrorists as well, right?

I am not afraid to call evil by its name. Neither should anybody else. There are levels of evil when we're discussing "victimless" crimes...even when we're discussing random acts of violence.

These terrorists are evil. They are bad. It is not a matter of degree. Freedom fighters fight the enemy. Evil terrorists blow up school busses. They blow up civilain occupied trains. They blow up busy shopping malls. THEY BLOW UP CHILDREN. ON PURPOSE.

 

[Shadowfax]

exactly. they are evil, we all agree on that. but i don't understand the "There can be no satisfactory why." not because i'm trying to justify anything, but only to find the reason for their actions.
yes, no reason justifies this kind of action, true. but the terrorists apparently think there IS a reason. and instead of ignoring that fact, it would be wise to understand their reasoning, no matter how twisted it may be. why? to prevent actions like this in the future.

 

[HomeLAN]

That the entire point. The moment you try to understand their motivations, you give their actions a verneer of acceptability and justification. Whether that was your intent or not, you've done it. Reread GNL's post about their goal here and think about it. When you do this shit, you ARE supporting them.

As for me, not in this fucking lifetime.

 

[Shadowfax]

That the entire point. The moment you try to understand their motivations, you give their actions a verneer of acceptability and justification. Whether that was your intent or not, you've done it. Reread GNL's post about their goal here and think about it. When you do this shit, you ARE supporting them.

As for me, not in this fucking lifetime.

i have read his post, and i have thought about it. but apparently you're of opinion that as soon as you evaluate somebody's motivation, you ultimately support them.
this extreme black/white reasoning isn't going to do the situation any good. but i'm not going to try to explain my point; if you want to think black and white, be my guest. but it makes discussing this absolutely useless.

so, apparently i support them, according to your reasoning. so i must be a terrorist as well, right? if you're not with us, you're against us, wasn't it? you see how absolutely ridiculous this sounds?

 

[HomeLAN]

neither did the civilians that got killed in Chechnya...it's going both ways.

You didn't just examine their reasons, you supported them. So, I guess that answers that.

As for being black and white, this issue IS.

 

[Shadowfax]

True. I'm sure the 7 year-olds in there had a lot to do with that.

yeah, i responded to THAT line, yes. the 7 years had nothing to do with it. neither did the civilians who got killed in chechnya. the killing of innocent people IS going both ways. pointing that out, doesn't say i approve what the terrorists are doing.

if you can't see that diference and think that i support the terrorist, so be it. think that way, i couldn't care less.

 

[paul_valaru]

You can seperate yourself, and examine there thinking, profilers do it, doesn't mean you support them.

I can look at them, and understand from THIER point of view why they are doing what they are doing.

THEY think that terror is their only weapon, that they have used all their other options, and the only way to let other notice their cause is to do somthing so shocking that the world cannot look away, like it did when the russian army commited it's attrocities, so some people will realize their plight, and maybe rise up themselves.

see that is what they might be thinking

I personally think they are a bunch of cowardly baby-killers and their balls should be covered in honey, and then tied down near an anthill