U.N. report: U.S. committed acts 'amounting to torture' at Gitmo

paul_valaru

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
The US, the police of the world, the high and mighty, the greatest nation on earth the land of freedoms, etc. is breaking its own laws by using torture.

jsut cause the other guys do it does not make it right.

Torture is wrong. period, end of story.

what is so hard about that concept? is it cause flavio posted it? is it cause the US is being seen as the bad guy? When the US says it is the defender of freedoms of rights, and resorts to torture, there is something wrong.


so the question right now, is torture right or wrong?
 
chcr

chcr

Too cute for words
paul_valaru said:
so the question right now, is torture right or wrong?
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I will always believe that situations exist where torture will always be the most expedient solution. That's not to say that this is such a situation. I don't think that torture has been proved in this case even under the broadest sense of the word.

Example: Your child disappears. You have in your hand a photgraph of a person putting the child into a car under what is obviously duress. That person is standing right in front of you. Would you torture him or her to make them tell you where the child is? I promise that I would. If that makes me a bloodthirsty barbarian in your eyes, I wish I cared but I'm going to find my child. :shrug:

Right or wrong? Too subjective. I don't care what you think is right or wrong, only what I think is. What if everybody felt that way? I'm pretty sure everybody does.
 
catocom

catocom

Well-Known Member
flavio said:
Your scenario doesn't work then. There are laws and authorities in the situation. Given the fact that you endorse the country and the president breaking multiple domestic and multiple international laws whenever it's convenient.... then what is the purpose of having laws or a constitution
[size=-1] "Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves."
~William Pitt, 1783 [/size]
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Fine, whatever. I knew you'd sidestep the question instead of answering anyway.

flavio said:
You want to make it worse. That way more people will attack us.
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The way I see it, it will draw out the peole we need to kill.

flavio said:
No you don't. You think human rights outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights depend on the particular piece of ground you're standing on?
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You obviously don't know what I think.

flavio said:
The things that you are backing are at the very least criminal and unamerican.
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You obviously don't know jackshit about WAR.

flavio said:
Apparently you aren't familiar with the situation. Smells like :retard2: to me.

Iran didn't ignore international protocol. They are following the rules of the NPT and had voluntarily taken extra measures in a show of good faith. Much different than willfully breaking multiple international laws right?
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IMO YOU, are the one with your head stuck in the sand.
 
Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
paul_valaru said:
Torture is wrong. period, end of story.
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Civil law & war don't mix. For the police to torture in order to find out where teh gold is hidden is wrong. For the military to torture to save lives may not be.
 
paul_valaru

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
so the ends justify the means?.

personal torture in the case of the missing child, I would do it too, knowing I would get arrested for it and probably cleared of all charges, so I would be willing to face the consequences.

the military torturing, well there are no conciquences. and for what info are they torturing? how would you feel if it was americans being tortured?

where are the rights of these people, basic human rights, what have they done in particular that makes them so sub-human that they deserve this treatment (besides dis-agreeing with US policies, and maybe even defending their homeland - that being their point of view)

and where does it end, will they now start torturing american citizens who the suspect of having terrorist ties? what would you feel if say these people where IRA, not muslims?

what if it was your neibour, or someone you knew, would that be ok as well?
 
paul_valaru

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
Gonz said:
Civil law & war don't mix. For the police to torture in order to find out where teh gold is hidden is wrong. For the military to torture to save lives may not be.
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so now the charter of human rights is void? depending on circumstance?
 
Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
do you really think the charter of human rights is worth the paper its printed on? it's another UN wrist slapper.

as far as torturing...there hasn't been one iota of proof that the American Military, during Operation Freedom or any related operation, has tortured anyone. Sorry but I do not consider nekid human pyramids to be torture. Burning fingers off is torture. Pulling fingernails out is torture. Beheading is torture (to the extreme).

Looking at Pvt England is close but no cigar. Neither is Metalica on 10 (now, Barrly Manilow at any volume may be). Lets first get a baseline.

However, if there is a probability that Baltimore or Barre is about to glow...torture them motherfuckers any way you want...just stop ther bomb.
 
flavio

flavio

Banned
paul_valaru said:
so now the charter of human rights is void? depending on circumstance?
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You know I'm pretty surprised lately too. It's pretty riduclous sad how much contempt some have for international law and the constitution.

do you really think the charter of human rights is worth the paper its printed on? it's another UN wrist slapper.
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I swear you were using a UN resolution to justify the Iraq invasion.
 
paul_valaru

paul_valaru

100% Pure Canadian Beef
I guess no-one and since no-one will follow it either we might as well kill and torture and rape across the landscape.

hey since you are no longer abiding by it I guess the soldiers in Bagdad are gonna have a good old veil ripping time tonight. Cause if they ain't american, I guess they ain't human.
 
flavio

flavio

Banned
Gonz said:
Who's gonna enforce it?
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Seems a lot of countries get involved in UN Peacekeeping forces.

That's not to say that the US not following international law but enforcing other countries to abide by it still isn't ridiculous.
 
Gato_Solo

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
Seems a lot of countries get involved in UN Peacekeeping forces.

That's not to say that the US not following international law but enforcing other countries to abide by it still isn't ridiculous.
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When you can find torture in what we're doing over in the AOR, go ahead and report it. What you're doing is quibbling over the definition...greying it out, as it were...to justify villifying a certain group. By diluting the definition, you could say that your views on anything are torture to those who don't follow your ideology. It's a shame, really, that you have to go through such measures to prove a point. It shows a clearly underhanded way of thought...
 
Winky

Winky

Well-Known Member
Dallas Air Traffic Control (ATC)


Dallas Air Traffic Control: "Tower to Saudi Air 911--You are cleared to land eastbound on runway 9R."

Saudi Air: "Thank you Dallas ATC. Acknowledge cleared to land on runway 9R. Allah be Praised!"

Dallas ATC: "Tower to Egypt Air 711--You are cleared to land westbound on runway 9R."

Egypt Air: "Thank you Dallas ATC. We are cleared to land on runway 9R. Allah is Great."

Pause: Static..............

Saudi Air: "DALLAS ATC!!! DALLAS ATC!!!"

Dallas ATC: "Go ahead Saudi Air 911"

Saudi Air: "YOU HAVE CLEARED BOTH OF OUR AIRCRAFTS FOR THE SAME RUNWAY!!! WE ARE ON A COLLISION COURSE!!! INSTRUCTIONS PLEASE!!!

Dallas ATC: "Well, bless your hearts... Y'all be careful now, ya hear?"
 
flavio

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
When you can find torture in what we're doing over in the AOR, go ahead and report it. What you're doing is quibbling over the definition...greying it out, as it were...to justify villifying a certain group. By diluting the definition, you could say that your views on anything are torture to those who don't follow your ideology. It's a shame, really, that you have to go through such measures to prove a point. It shows a clearly underhanded way of thought...
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Lame attempt to justify it by "greying out" the definition. You know Bush is into it or he wouldn't have added his little bit onto the McCain bill.

Torture

Do a little search there's examples everywhere.
 
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