Virtually all Iraq's utilities below pre invasion levels

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
So you would say Congress is primarily responsible for calling for military action and coming up with the war budget?

Like I said before...somebody missed all those R.I.F. commercials between the cartoons...

According to the US Constitution, only Congress can declare war. Also, according to the US Constitution, Congress is the only authority which can set and approve a budget. The President can call up troops, but only up to a certain level, and only for a limited amount of time, then it's Congress' show. Which part of that do you not understand?
 

flavio

Banned
Who creates the budget?

Who's setting this figure below?

"Today I'm sending the Congress a wartime supplemental appropriations request of $74.7 billion to fund needs directly arising from the Iraqi conflict and our global war against terror."

Congress coming up with these figures?

"T[size=-1]he Bush administration said Thursday it will ask Congress for $120 billion more for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and $18 billion more this year for ..."

Who called for military action?
"
[/size][size=-1]Blair has joined Bush in calling for military action"

Now let me ask again...[/size]Who do you think is primarily responsible for calling for military action and coming up with the war budget exactly?
[size=-1][/size]
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
The president can ASK Congress for whatever funding he wants. That doesn't mean Congress will necessarily approve every last cent. The way you're painting the picture, it's like a teenager asking for $20 from dad for a night out, and just because he gets it this time, he is now the primary decision-maker on financing nights out. The buck still stops with dad.
 

flavio

Banned
Inkara1 said:
The president can ASK Congress for whatever funding he wants. That doesn't mean Congress will necessarily approve every last cent. The way you're painting the picture, it's like a teenager asking for $20 from dad for a night out, and just because he gets it this time, he is now the primary decision-maker on financing nights out. The buck still stops with dad.
It isn't congress's money so that doesn't work.

But you want to say Congress is primarily responsible for calling for military action and coming up with the war budget?
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
So lemme see...

Korea was a 'police action' and we had
Casualties: 36,934
Wounded: 103,284

and it ended in a stalemate that continues to this day

Vietnam heh well
US dead: 58,226
US wounded: 153,303

and some would say we LOST!

and now this thing in Iraq
the Libbies are awaiting the three thousandth
US combat death, I'm sure with quivering anticipation.
Sounds to me like there's a hella bit of difference
in comparison to past 'conflicts', wouldn't cha agree?
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
It isn't congress's money so that doesn't work.

But you want to say Congress is primarily responsible for calling for military action and coming up with the war budget?

You keep trying to tie the two together to give your point credibility, but the two are distinctly seperate issues...

The money is granted by Congress.Yyou refuse to acknowledge that fact, so your argument is no more than 'smoke and mirrors'. It's just like your definition of torture. I do not understand why you have such a hard time with the bottom line, but your agenda has always been there...That's why nobody gives you any merit, and that's why you will always seem like the child crying because he didn't get his candy. In the real world, the squeaky wheel gets the grease every time...but why it's being greased sometimes has nothing to do with the squeak...
 

flavio

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
The money is granted by Congress.Yyou refuse to acknowledge that fact, so your argument is no more than 'smoke and mirrors'. It's just like your definition of torture. I do not understand why you have such a hard time with the bottom line, but your agenda has always been there...That's why nobody gives you any merit, and that's why you will always seem like the child crying because he didn't get his candy. In the real world, the squeaky wheel gets the grease every time...but why it's being greased sometimes has nothing to do with the squeak...
Yes, budgets are run by Congress for approval. You refuse to acknowledge where the primary responsibility lies so your arguement is no more than denial. Just like you covering your eyes to the torture going on by whining about the definition of torture when the examples obviously exceed any definition.

You have immense difficulty with the obvious because you refuse to see things right in front of your nose. That's why you will always seem like the lobotomy patient who hasn't gotten his medication and nobody can get you to discuss an idea for more than a couple posts before your arguement falls apart and you resort to the name calling of cowardly child. In the real world, change a fool against his will, he's of the same opinion still.
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
*wonders aloud if he's that insane IRL?*

As for 'what's right in front of Gato's nose'
at this time it ain't the U.S.A.

flav-oh it is a fricken front line seat in the
war on terror right on the fidy yard line, you fool!
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
Yes, budgets are run by Congress for approval. You refuse to acknowledge where the primary responsibility lies so your arguement is no more than denial. Just like you covering your eyes to the torture going on by whining about the definition of torture when the examples obviously exceed any definition.

You have immense difficulty with the obvious because you refuse to see things right in front of your nose. That's why you will always seem like the lobotomy patient who hasn't gotten his medication and nobody can get you to discuss an idea for more than a couple posts before your arguement falls apart and you resort to the name calling of cowardly child. In the real world, change a fool against his will, he's of the same opinion still.

Tsk, tsk...now where did I call you a name?

As for the rest of your post, at least you acknowledge where the money comes from. Now for the primary responsibility...that would also rest with the office approving the budget. If they don't like the way the money is spent, they have a mandate to change that budget until it suits them, and then forward it on for the President's signature. If the President doesn't like what he sees, it gets vetoed, and Congress goes through the process again. Now...if Congress doen't allot money, then the President must ask. The answer is up to Congress whether to allot the money, or not. Now...since you are so sure of your argument, where did I go into denial, when you acknowldeged that I was correct about Congress in the first place?


BTW...I like that last quote. Perhaps, one day, you'll actually understand what it means...
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
oh, fer chrissake...
Article. II.

Section. 1.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section. 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section. 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

That is the terms for Presidents.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
There you go....finally.

Once again, you 'cherry-pick' your answer. Sad, really. Too bad it doesn't wash. Perhaps if yu used the whole sentence...
 
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