5-year old girl raped and killed - and the guy might get away with it

this shit nugget is why I am for the death penalty. drunk or not he took a life. a 5 year old girl no less. a child.parents lost something they can never get back. and hes getting it easy because he was drunk? what the hell kind of bullshit is that? i hate that. sick. and pathetic.
 
Am I the only person here who thinks two wrongs don't make a right?

This guy should get the death penalty - my firm belief. For two reasons: so that he can never ever do this again, and to discourage others from commiting similar crimes.

But to torture him? What does that actually achieve? Does it get the parents their little girl back?

Also - call me a cynic but, the first thing that sprang to mind when I read this was - why was the door unlocked??!!?? Whatever the reason they didn't lock it, this wouldn't have happened if they had. They failed to protect their daughter. I think living with that is sentence enough, but I also think it's worth pointing out....
 
sam...haven't you ever forgotten to lock your door? i keep my chain on my door all the time because the kids can open the door if i don't...what happens if i forget just once? but it happens to people all the time...doesn't make them bad parents. you shouldn't blame them...believe me they will be blaming themselves for the rest of their lives...don't add to that.
 
tonks said:
sam...haven't you ever forgotten to lock your door? i keep my chain on my door all the time because the kids can open the door if i don't...what happens if i forget just once? but it happens to people all the time...doesn't make them bad parents. you shouldn't blame them...believe me they will be blaming themselves for the rest of their lives...don't add to that.
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I totally agree with you there Tonks. I've forgotten to lock my door. It happens. We're only human and mistakes happen. The parents are not to be blamed for someone else's sickness. The fact that this guy decided to go and abduct a girl is not the parents fault. If it wasn't them, it could have been anyone else.
 
I know they will be blaming themselves, like I said, that's sentence enough. And I'm not saying that it's their fault - people like this man shouldn't exist.....but they do.

Personally, I've never forgotten to lock my door (now the car door, that's another issue altogether :rolleyes:) - I'm too shit-scared of who might be out there. Added to which, most front doors here are on a yale lock - once they are shut you can't open them from the outside without a key. Those of my friends who live in houses without yale locks - admittedly these folks are in London - all lock the door even during the day, let alone at night. (I'm just assuming this happened at night cos it was 4.30am when he reached home)

At my parents home, in a 'rather nice' village in surrey, we are a bit more blase' about locks. But that's largely because a big, black, very loud, incredibly terratorial, dog sleeps across the foot of the stairs, in the front hall. Not to mention the three 'small yappy-type dogs' that sleep in the back porch. Nothing's getting within a mile of those kids once they've gone to bed before the whole street knows about it.

So often you read one of these reports of a terrible thing hppening to a child and all you can think is...they should never have been in position to get into that situation in the first place.

The issue of kids opening doors from the inside is another one altogether and can be a real problem. There've been a couple of stories in the UK of frantic parents waking up one morning to find their todler has 'gone out'......and you can see just how it happened.
 
IMHO, the Death Penalty shouldn't be used as a type of torture agains these kinds of people, but merely as a way to get rid of them. You don't have to support them in jail, or release them after 15-20 years. They're gone..period. And although this doesn't bring back the kid, it does give the family the knowledge that the evil that happened to their child shall never be repeated again by this one individual.

Rince, repeat as necessary (Until the gene-pool is clean)
 
Sam - about those lost kids in the UK. It happens.

Let me tell you a story about my son, Javier.
A few months ago, at age 14months, while my father-in-law was answering the phone (2 minute call), my son managed to open the front door (which was locked but not perfectly closed), go down 7 concrete steps and was found playing with the hedges on the edge of the sidewalk.

My father-in-law doesn't live in the nicest of areas (Ask Uki Chick, Paul_Valaru, Camelyn or Prof) called Cote des Neiges *known for it's drug-busts and midnight shootings*. During the day, it's a nice enough place and nothing happened to him.

Now...the door was locked. 2 minutes is a short time. He was only 14 months old...but and I really hate to think of this, something just as evil could've happened to my son that day.

I can't blame the parents for lowering their guard (perhaps they live in a nice neighborhood and no one really locks their doors), and neither should any of us. If the door had been locked, I get the feeling that he would've broken in anyway...what he was doing checking doors at midnight can hardly be considered a 'good' thing either. He was looking for a victim. Probably knew that she lived there.

Evil exists ladies and gentlemen and it doesn't need an open door...it makes it's own doors and opportunities.
 
MrBishop said:
IMHO, the Death Penalty shouldn't be used as a type of torture agains these kinds of people, but merely as a way to get rid of them. You don't have to support them in jail, or release them after 15-20 years. They're gone..period. And although this doesn't bring back the kid, it does give the family the knowledge that the evil that happened to their child shall never be repeated again by this one individual.

Rince, repeat as necessary (Until the gene-pool is clean)
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dammit bish are you ever wrong? The death penalty is used as a deterrence. A specific and its hope is to be a general deterrence. but it is a sepcific one as the sick fuck cant do his/her crimes again. and as sam said the parents will blame themselves. its true they could have watched their child a little more like locking the doors or something like that but moreover I blame the actual perpetrator. he did the crime itself the bastard. its not unusual for a victim to blame themself(and the parents ARE victims in this they lost something they suffer) and that is sad. they shouldnt blame themselves. and the asshole should be locked away if not killed.
 
Yeah - re kids opening doors - all I meant is that I recognise that it does happen and I agree that it's no-ones fault at all.

But i do think it's wise to lock doors at night. I agree that they made a simple human mistake - it doesn't make them bad people or bad parents......but if they hadn't made that mistake, that guy testing doors would either have moved on, or have broken in and almost certainly woken them. I'm not attempting to judge them - just pointing out that they made a mistake, and one they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
 
freako104 said:
dammit bish are you ever wrong? The death penalty is used as a deterrence. A specific and its hope is to be a general deterrence. but it is a sepcific one as the sick fuck cant do his/her crimes again. and as sam said the parents will blame themselves. its true they could have watched their child a little more like locking the doors or something like that but moreover I blame the actual perpetrator. he did the crime itself the bastard. its not unusual for a victim to blame themself(and the parents ARE victims in this they lost something they suffer) and that is sad. they shouldnt blame themselves. and the asshole should be locked away if not killed.
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Sorry freako...although it's meant to be a deterrent, much like jail time is, it isn't an effective one. People don't stop before raping someone and think to themselves "Hmm...maybe I shouldn't rape this woman/girl/baby because if I get caught...I can face the death penalty'...maybe, some ice cream and a hot bath instead.

Doesn't work that way.

The Superego/moral structure of the person is the greatest deterrant to crime. Without the morals strongly in place, jail and the death penalty won't stop crimes from happening. At best, it will make the perp think longer about hiding his/her tracks or more fearful post-homocide etc...

No...not a deterrent...a cure.
 
Bish there are two types of deterrents. general and specific

general: for all society. used to try to deter anyone from doing the crime

specific: for an individual. to stop the individual from doing the crime;to stop them from committing certain crimes.



now as for the superego: not meant to offend but I think Freud is bullshit. now the superego to me is just how people get their morals but morals are taught and reinforced and thus the superego would be developed and make the person think of their actions. it is nothing more than the concince(sp?)
 
I would say both. - as in cure and deterrent

I think there are people out there who will do these sick things whatever the punishment is, but I also think there are not-quite-so-totally-fucked-up people who can be deterred from copying them.
 
I agree that the death penalty is not a deterrent. It does however, get rid of some of the sick fucks. I look at it this way. How could someone like that possibly be rehabilitated? If they were, how could they possibly live with what they had done. Sometimes you just need to put them down.
 
freako104 said:
Bish there are two types of deterrents. general and specific

general: for all society. used to try to deter anyone from doing the crime

specific: for an individual. to stop the individual from doing the crime;to stop them from committing certain crimes.



now as for the superego: not meant to offend but I think Freud is bullshit. now the superego to me is just how people get their morals but morals are taught and reinforced and thus the superego would be developed and make the person think of their actions. it is nothing more than the concince(sp?)
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That works only if the person has fear of punishment. Freud's ideas might be a bit off..the whole levels of learnign thing is a bit off for me, but if you consider it as a 'label' for morals vs immorality (Id vs. Superego), then it works. Basically this is it.

If you are so fucked in the head that you would do something like this, then no amount of deterrents would stop you. If the death penalty was "death by torture over a 3 week period", then this guy would still have done it...the death penalty will stop the average joe (who wouldn't do anything to deserve it because of his/her morals anyway) but does SFA to deter the really sick ones.

Violent crimes have a way of escalating...assault, aggravated assault, sexual assault, rape, rape causing bodily harm, rape causing death. I can see the death penalty possibly slowing down this progression, but not stopping it.

We're arguing towards the same point... this piece of shit should fry. In you mind, this will help stop others, in mine..he'll be dead, it won't stop anyone else, but it doesn't matter...he's still dead :)
 
Sad and unfortunate but once he goes to prison and other inmates find out what he is in for he will get his just deserves. In prisons Pedophiles and child murderes are hated above all else....even more than cops. Safe to say he will be a human trash...literally for the amount of time he is in the prison.
 
MrBishop said:
That works only if the person has fear of punishment. Freud's ideas might be a bit off..the whole levels of learnign thing is a bit off for me, but if you consider it as a 'label' for morals vs immorality (Id vs. Superego), then it works. Basically this is it.

If you are so fucked in the head that you would do something like this, then no amount of deterrents would stop you. If the death penalty was "death by torture over a 3 week period", then this guy would still have done it...the death penalty will stop the average joe (who wouldn't do anything to deserve it because of his/her morals anyway) but does SFA to deter the really sick ones.

Violent crimes have a way of escalating...assault, aggravated assault, sexual assault, rape, rape causing bodily harm, rape causing death. I can see the death penalty possibly slowing down this progression, but not stopping it.

We're arguing towards the same point... this piece of shit should fry. In you mind, this will help stop others, in mine..he'll be dead, it won't stop anyone else, but it doesn't matter...he's still dead :)
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ahh but you see he did do it and he wasnt scared correct? but it does stop him from doing it again or doing anything else. that is what makes ti a deterrent. and BCD is right. down here we were told on a visit(class trip to prison to see how it works) and they were called baby rapers. they had to be segregated. and i never said it would stop others. i said that is the AIM. but it also takes care of deterring the one as he cant do anything he is dead. we are arguing the same point. but from different angles
 
wait... if he was so drunk how does he recall every vivid detail of the crime? that seems a little odd. If I woke up with a dead 5 year old underneath me after a night of drunken binging Im pretty sure Id shoot myself right there.

Well why not just put him in the same cell with that guy who killed John Geoghan.
 
let me know what the posse heads up .. I'll give a hand... and I know I'll do a lot of damage to the bastard.
 
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