9/11 - plus 7 years

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
It was 7 years ago today....a day to go on in infamy, a day that would change the world. For the better or for the worst...

*MrBishop ...
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..gives a moment of silence to those killed during the attacks, those who died trying to save the victims, their families and the world.

Rest in Peace
 
How could the events of that day possibly have beem a change for teh better? It was a tragedy and an act of cowardice and terrorrism. While I surely honor and remember those who died needlessly, including the passengers on the planes that got highjacked, I just dont see how anyopne could see it as a change for better.
 
It opened up a lot of people's eyes. Brought a lot of people together... not the event itself (which i agree was 'cowardly'), but the reaction to it.
 
Beck's broadcast of that day:

http://archive.glennbeck.com/traggic/



image013.jpg
 
Currently watching "102 minutes That Changed the World" on History Channel.

Its been 7 years and the images still pack an overwhelming emotional punch.
The sense of horror and outrage hasn't lessened with time.
 
The moment the terror fades is the moment you'll be able to declare victory over the terrorists.
 
What kind of statement are you trying to make with this cartoon?

Seems pretty obvious.

and if you look closely, there is a couple of Is, and a D, and an O, and a T left over. Make yourself another sign out of them if your saying what I think your saying.

You're right, anyone who would give up freedom, liberty, justice, and equality for security is certainly an idiot. Not sure if that would in smoothly to the cartoon but it's not a half bad idea.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Ben Franklin

Some also quote it as "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
 
What kind of statement are you trying to make with this cartoon?

and if you look closely, there is a couple of Is, and a D, and an O, and a T left over. Make yourself another sign out of them if your saying what I think your saying.

I think it makes a pretty profound statement. Just because you don't like the message is no reason to jump all over Spike.
We have all had to sacrifice some of our everyday freedom in the name of safety since 9/11.
 
The cartoon was crass in the context of the thread but a very effective statement of the way things are.
 
Those with a 9-10 mentality would minimize the threat that we as a nation have had to adjust to....while wondering IF this country has not been attacked in the 7 years since because we HAVE adopted a proactive attitude towards our defense. :shrug:

These same selfish people would rather downplay the necessity of security---and with that attitude they put this country at risk.

Apparently it is easier to blame Booooosh! and more comforting to put their fingers in their ears and sing "la, la, la, la" and say that we are just over-reacting than to believe that there is actually evil in the world and that evil would like to destroy us for no other reason than because we will not consent to be dominated by it. Those that oppose the safeguards established after 9-11-2001 have no ability to comprehend that laws like the Patriot Act are necessary to ensure the safety of American citizens and in part, are necessary because of people like themselves.

Some believe we should forget the attacks on 9-11-2001 and move on. They dismiss defense as something we don't need, because it wasn't really an attack in the first place now, was it? Just like "goddamn America" and just like "America's chickens have come home to roost" it was more of a wake up call, isn't that right?

Some of these same people are the ones who hold the conspiracy theories to be true: that the attacks on 9-11 were an inside job, that information was known but ignored, or we set bombs in the buildings ourselves in order to kill 3,000 American citizens.

JUSTICE

LIBERTY

FREEDOM

Spike adds "equality" to the list. Dave agrees with the cartoon.

Since both of them have offered the opinion that our quest for security since 9-11-2001 has had an adverse affect on civil liberties, I think it would be appropriate to hear how their civil liberties generally have been affected and how their daily activities have been disrupted specifically. For instance: "I was detained by the FBI because the wiretap they placed on my phone revealed that I was......." or "When I refused to be searched before boarding a plane I was taken into a small room by 2 men wearing rubber gloves and they......"

It is not necessary to recite the laws that have gone into effect and what changes have been implemented. Please omit any opinions to "legality" "justified" "fairness" or any variation of those words. Simply reveal how your daily activities have been interrupted because of the emphasis placed on this country's security.


Also keep in mind:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." ;)
 
Guess that cartoon touched a nerve.

To answer your question, none of my personal civil liberties have been trod upon.
I have been inconvenienced and delayed at airports over knee-jerk "security" policies that are useless at preventing much of anything.

I do cringe every time "Homeland Security" is mentioned. Sounds so Germany circa 1930's or USSR circa 1960's to me.
I admittedly haven't read much of what the Patriot Act encompasses but what I have read reminds my of the RICO statutes, only aimed at the citizenry instead of mob bosses.

Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.

That statement applies internally just as much as externally. Maybe more so as most great nation states/empires had been weakened internally before external forces finished them off.
 
It is not necessary to recite the laws that have gone into effect and what changes have been implemented.

Of course you don't want to hear that because that would make it obvious how wrong things have gone.


Please omit any opinions to "legality" "justified" "fairness" or any variation of those words. Simply reveal how your daily activities have been interrupted because of the emphasis placed on this country's security.


I understand Cerise, I really do. You don't care about the Constituion, warrantless wiretaps, American citizens being held for years without trial, torture, innocents killed, soldiers forced to serve multiple tours they disn't sign up for, or freedom in general.

As long as it doesn't affect you personally and you can get your beef jerky and watch House then who cares about freedom, liberty, justice, and equality. You'll freely give those up.
 
I have been inconvenienced and delayed at airports over knee-jerk "security" policies that are useless at preventing much of anything.

Much of it is based on El Al security. They haven't been highjacked in how long?

I agree so much that I've refused to fly since 9/11. Not fear of terrorists but fear of my government. I also don't like the on-time flight departure rules. If I sit on a runway for 2,3, 6, 10 hours just so they can get their quota, on paper, they can piss off. The airlines, along with the FAA are killing themselves and all we can do is watch.
 
Of course you don't want to hear that because that would make it obvious how wrong things have gone.





I understand Cerise, I really do. You don't care about the Constituion, warrantless wiretaps, American citizens being held for years without trial, torture, innocents killed, soldiers forced to serve multiple tours they disn't sign up for, or freedom in general.

As long as it doesn't affect you personally and you can get your beef jerky and watch House then who cares about freedom, liberty, justice, and equality. You'll freely give those up.

Innocents killed. I dare say 911 took care of that quite nicely. and that wasn't the work of this country

if you want to create a sense of security by taking away from liberty and justice adn freedom and eqaulity go right ahead. I think we are goign about it the right way, by going after the people who attacked us. i gheuss you feel differently. I personally dont have anything to hide or be ashamed of. They can search me at an air port as long as they like. If it keeps me from ending up liek one of the passengers on the 911 air planes i think its worth it. I wont have a bomb or a knife or a gun on me when i fly so its no problem at all.

Soldiers sign up for whatever their orders are and most of them carrey out those orders honorably. A few dont. That happens in any job. Some people are not cut out to be a soldier, and they never should have voluntered for it either. To make heros out of them is rediculous. The 99% who do carrey out the orders are to be admired and supported.

Youre a confusing person. Why do you hate America so much? Alot of countrys wouldn't allow you to complain about their goverments like you do.
 
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