Abortion (Pro-life/pro-choice/both)?

[ResearchMonkey]

a simple question. Do people have the right to chose what happens to their body?

Bishy,

You know a woman can do what ever pleases her with her body. An unborn as well as a new born have no choices. they are dependant on others to choose for them.

I already expressed earlier in this thread that the AMA will change its ethos based on advancing science. The court will then force M.D. to perform un-ethical acts?

The gov't has no business telling you what you can do with your body. but the gov't has a duty to protect the life of an individual. especially when the individual cannot defend it self.


Flight or fight - a basic instinct, is independent action of self preservation indicative of life?

If you touch a hot burner do you control your reaction?

If the mother cannot control the voluntary movements of the fetus are they a part of her body?

A woman has evolved with the ability to gestate life, but it is not her own life she gestates.

 

[tonksy]

little chippy in here, ain't it?

i may have a hopelessly hippy view on life but i believe that you atone for your own actions in due time and i think that judging and browbeating and being hateful to the pro-choicers is a sin, too...and if you are a christian than you believe that all sins are equal in the eyes of the lord...if you aren't it's still beating a dead horse.
that being said, i am anti-abortion. i'll not have an abortion.
i've had opportunities to consider the option but i chose to play the cards that were dealt me no matter how much they put a kink in my lifestyle. i'll tell you a little something about me that i am not proud of...although i am proud of the outcome and proud of myself for having the guts to stand up for an unborn child:
i was newly married and as close to happy as i got back then. i got pregnant. i was so very pleased. i bought things for the nursery, i had baby clothes, i had names. then one morning when i was 3 1/2 months pregnant i woke with blood in my britches. my child had died. i never passed it. a week later i had the surgery they call an abortion. i mourned the loss of my child. my husband mourned the loss of our child....but he wouldn't touch me...he couldn't comfort me. he pushed me away and i was too hurt to pull him back. i started drinking heavily every night...tequila...and one night i ending up seeking solace with someone else. which is/was wrong....but he knew what to say. and i needed someone to comfort me, as corny as that sounds.
i got pregnant. obviously not my husbands. i came clean and took my lumps. i denied an abortion and faced his leaving me (okay...so not a real big deal )
in my eyes a childs life is more important than the strain it may put on me.
so i had the baby...a beautiful 3 yr old. my pearl....my husband stuck around and he loves her as though he were his own and i highly admire this in him.
6 months later i got pregnant again. holy shit. it was unexpected to say the least as i hadn't cycled yet since having marlowe. we were poor...i was just back to work and we were struggling to make the rent (i was in the hospital alot with marlowe). we decided to file for bankruptcy rather than think of an abortion....again, accepting what life dished out. we lived in a shithole with holes in the floor and ate generic macaroni and cheese and endlessly amounts of food from work. our phone was always getting turned off. we were poor. my life totally sucked (apart from my children). i could have avoided that. but it was my choice not to.
my marriage never really recovered from the miscarriage and resulting idiotic behavior on my part. so now here i am. a single mother with a slew of children, all from different men. working as a waitress and being a drain on the tax payer. it's fucking humbling....but it's what i was dealt. and it's nobodies fault but my own. i still have my children and want the best for them and love them completely and i am so glad i had them.

 

[Gonz]

but it's what i was dealt. and it's nobodies fault but my own. i still have my children and want the best for them and love them completely and i am so glad i had them.

You have no idea how amazing it is to see that. Somebody who understands the simple, final truths. You my dear are an inspiration.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

i've had opportunities to consider the option but i chose to play the cards that were dealt me no matter how much they put a kink in my lifestyle.

I applaud you; your choices, your courage, and your strength to endure the sacrifices.

I will agree. Bashing into someone for what has already happened has no effect or a negative effect. What is done is done; the trauma and feelings from with-in are the worst, being attacked does not help.

 

[ClaireBear]

OMIGAWD

I was told to check back in, and that you'd found a sense of humour. That's damn funny. You were 18, and he got you drunk??!!?? What did he do? Hold you down and pour it down your throat? YOU got you drunk honey. And, if you don't remember it, don't have witnesses, and didn't press charges, don't call it rape. You don't know what it was.




But this was all your tutor's fault. Couldn't be yours.




Thought? I doubt thinking had much to do with it.



ROFL all over again. You sleep with a married man, get pregnant by him, you you think that your rape might be a point of shame? You should be at the Just for Laughs festival.





Well, if you were looking to scare me, you did. Does anyone here really want someone who's past is this full of bad decisions involved in teaching children at all, least of all at this sensitive point in their lives? I sure don't. You stayed with him? After deciding that you wouldn't want to bring up a child in that environment? That it was bad enough that the child was better off dead than there?



Whatever you say.



But no regrets, eh?




I'd say your entire life is one of convenience.





Of course. Why deal with what you've already done. Ignore it, and move on.




You do that, sweety.



And back on my ignore list. If you're really that fucked up, and not just playing, you've nothing I wanna hear. And if you are playing, you're not worth my time. Goodbye.

Is there a nazi smile?

 

[ClaireBear]

little chippy in here, ain't it?

i may have a hopelessly hippy view on life but i believe that you atone for your own actions in due time and i think that judging and browbeating and being hateful to the pro-choicers is a sin, too...and if you are a christian than you believe that all sins are equal in the eyes of the lord...if you aren't it's still beating a dead horse.
that being said, i am anti-abortion. i'll not have an abortion.
i've had opportunities to consider the option but i chose to play the cards that were dealt me no matter how much they put a kink in my lifestyle. i'll tell you a little something about me that i am not proud of...although i am proud of the outcome and proud of myself for having the guts to stand up for an unborn child:
i was newly married and as close to happy as i got back then. i got pregnant. i was so very pleased. i bought things for the nursery, i had baby clothes, i had names. then one morning when i was 3 1/2 months pregnant i woke with blood in my britches. my child had died. i never passed it. a week later i had the surgery they call an abortion. i mourned the loss of my child. my husband mourned the loss of our child....but he wouldn't touch me...he couldn't comfort me. he pushed me away and i was too hurt to pull him back. i started drinking heavily every night...tequila...and one night i ending up seeking solace with someone else. which is/was wrong....but he knew what to say. and i needed someone to comfort me, as corny as that sounds.
i got pregnant. obviously not my husbands. i came clean and took my lumps. i denied an abortion and faced his leaving me (okay...so not a real big deal )
in my eyes a childs life is more important than the strain it may put on me.
so i had the baby...a beautiful 3 yr old. my pearl....my husband stuck around and he loves her as though he were his own and i highly admire this in him.
6 months later i got pregnant again. holy shit. it was unexpected to say the least as i hadn't cycled yet since having marlowe. we were poor...i was just back to work and we were struggling to make the rent (i was in the hospital alot with marlowe). we decided to file for bankruptcy rather than think of an abortion....again, accepting what life dished out. we lived in a shithole with holes in the floor and ate generic macaroni and cheese and endlessly amounts of food from work. our phone was always getting turned off. we were poor. my life totally sucked (apart from my children). i could have avoided that. but it was my choice not to.
my marriage never really recovered from the miscarriage and resulting idiotic behavior on my part. so now here i am. a single mother with a slew of children, all from different men. working as a waitress and being a drain on the tax payer. it's fucking humbling....but it's what i was dealt. and it's nobodies fault but my own. i still have my children and want the best for them and love them completely and i am so glad i had them.

I admire your stength and you're decision... each woman should have the chance to make their own decision and choices... what ever feels right for them at the time and NO ONE has the right to belittle their own personal choice! (Its a pity more "people" round here don't realise this!)

I have the highest respect for you Tonks

 

[Gonz]

NO ONE has the right to belittle their own personal choice!

That's where you're wrong. You make a choice & live with its consequences. We have every right to belittle or mock or support or encourage anything.

 

[PT]

That's where you're wrong. You make a choice & live with its consequences. We have every right to belittle or mock or support or encourage anything.

From the AUP.

Misc.

7. Repetitive shit stirring, use of the AUP as a general defense tactic, making unprovoked personal attacks, or behaving in an unacceptable or unreasonable manner may result in restriction of your posting or viewing privileges, including but not limited to, the offending member being sent to the Kiddie Korner until he/she can behave, a trip to the coventry, or an instant ban. OTCentral.com will be the sole arbiter as to what constitutes acceptable and reasonable manner.

Gonz

vbmenu_register("postmenu_349117", true);
Keeper Of Odd Knowledge
Adminishitstirrer

Just thought I'd stop by to see if anything has changed. Guess not.

 

[Gonz]

Would you expect any less?

 

[PT]

Would you expect any less?

From you? Not really Gonz. I've pretty much given up on you changing. Sammy, however I have not given up on but he has apparently given the reigns over to you. Sad that. Later.

 

[Gonz]

When you were here in the recent past, no complaints? Are you just looking for a reason to bitch?

 

[PT]

Yep Gonz, I spent two years and countless hours here, yet I come back just looking for a reason to bitch. Yep, that's it exactly you.

edited for personal attack. Sam

 

[MrBishop]

Bishy,

You know a woman can do what ever pleases her with her body. An unborn as well as a new born have no choices. they are dependant on others to choose for them.

I already expressed earlier in this thread that the AMA will change its ethos based on advancing science. The court will then force M.D. to perform un-ethical acts?

The gov't has no business telling you what you can do with your body. but the gov't has a duty to protect the life of an individual. especially when the individual cannot defend it self.


Flight or fight - a basic instinct, is independent action of self preservation indicative of life?

If you touch a hot burner do you control your reaction?

If the mother cannot control the voluntary movements of the fetus are they a part of her body?

A woman has evolved with the ability to gestate life, but it is not her own life she gestates.

Monkey,

I'm sure that you are familiar with this process...but I'll press on. Take a frog, bend it's head forward, insert a needle through its medula omblagata (sp?), scramble the brains. The frog is still alive (for a while at least). You can, at that point vivisect it. You can see the heart beating etc... if you take an acidic solution and place it on the frog's back...its legs will try and rub it off.
It's an autonomic responce. It indicates life...but not consciousness. Likewise, touching a hot burner etc... likewise, the reaction of an 11wk old feotus once exposed to salts and acidic solutions.

Does it, in your professional experience, indicate an autonomic reaction to stimuli or a conscious reaction to a life-threathening experience? You stated that it indicates consciousness...and thus makes the foetus a thinking individual...therefore giving that individual rights over and above that of its mother.

The foetus begins looking human early in its gestational period. Should it's resemblance indicate the point at which it should no longer be aborted?

You've mentioned independant movemement as an indicator of life, you've mentioned potential of life. In fact...you've brought up several indicators.
Is it your intention to say that at any point after conception, that the foetus should be given full rights?

 

[MrBishop]

That's where you're wrong. You make a choice & live with its consequences. We have every right to belittle or mock or support or encourage anything.

Politics and News of the Day. It does get ugly. Don't say you weren't warned. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Not everything.

 

[Nixy]

Everyone has the right to make the choice they wanna make. If the pregnancy is a result of a couple then both should be involved in the decission...if the "daddy" isn't in the picture the decission is up to the woman.

Up until 2 weeks ago if I had ended up pregnant (despite every effort to avoid it short of not havign sex...ie. doubled up birthcontrol) I would have had an abortion...I would of had to...I couldn't live with a child who I resented...cause I know myself and I knew I'd have resented the child...not to mention that I only had a few thousand dollars to my name...if I stopped being a student I'd have had no place to live...no degree...a mother who can barely support herself and my brother (who is 15)...things have changed...I am with a man who loves me...I have what every person in this world deserves to have...if something happened and I ended up pregnant now I would finish school, I would have the baby, cause I have someone to be there for me...I have someone to support me and the child...I think what some of you don't get is that sometimes a person has nowhere to turn...nothing to fall back on...yes, adoption is an option...but...I know you all will call it selfish but I know I could never carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption...I couldn't do it...maybe I'm in denial...maybe I would pretend that an aborted child wasn't as "real" as a baby up for adoption...I don't know...but everyone has their views and if YOU would never have an abortion or you would never want someone carrying your baby to have an abortion that is YOUR choice but you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to put down people who make that choice, you have NO right to tell them they're wrong. I have heard NOONE tell you guys that you SHOULDN'T have kept your children...everyone respects it was YORU CHOICE and you should give them the SAME FUCKING curtousy.

 

[Nixy]

Everyone makes mistakes

Obviously if I had a child now it would NOT be easy, not at all...but I would do it cause I know it would be doable some how...that we'd all be OK.

There's a difference between not being easy and seeing no way to make it work...if you've never been in a position where you see NO other option then you wouldn't understand...yes, a lot of people go through a lot of shit but you were on the other side of the "not easy vs not possible" line...barely on the other side maybe but you were on the other side...everyone's line is in a different place...RESPECT THAT

 

[Professur]

Up until 2 weeks ago if I had ended up pregnant (despite every effort to avoid it short of not havign sex...ie. doubled up birthcontrol)

You know the best birthcontrol is the pill? You put it between your knees, and hold it there.

I would have had an abortion...

That's sad

I would of had to

Um, no.

...I couldn't live with a child who I resented

And you'd resent it because ...?

...cause I know myself and I knew I'd have resented the child

Still doesn't say why.

...not to mention that I only had a few thousand dollars to my name...if I stopped being a student I'd have had no place to live...no degree...a mother who can barely support herself and my brother (who is 15)

And yet, you still take the chance. Damn, you must have great sex.

...things have changed...I am with a man who loves me

More than the last one?

...I have what every person in this world deserves to have

Deserves? Noone deserves anything. You get what you earn, make, or steal.

...if something happened and I ended up pregnant now I would finish school, I would have the baby, cause I have someone to be there for me...I have someone to support me and the child...

Wow. And just last week, you were worried about bringing him to the BBQ.



[quoteI think what some of you don't get is that sometimes a person has nowhere to turn...nothing to fall back on...

I understand that fully. But if that's the case, why risk it? Is the chance for good sex so damn important that you'd put yourself in that position, knowing full well that you've nowhere to turn? Just seems like russian roulette to me.

yes, adoption is an option...but...I know you all will call it selfish but I know I could never carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption...I couldn't do it...maybe I'm in denial...maybe I would pretend that an aborted child wasn't as "real" as a baby up for adoption...I don't know...but everyone has their views and if YOU would never have an abortion or you would never want someone carrying your baby to have an abortion that is YOUR choice

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Maybe I'm not reading that right. I just triple read that, and each time, it comes out "I'm not ready for it, but if I can't have it, noone else can". I knew kids that would destroy toys rather than see them handed down to others. Seemed damn selfish then too.

but you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to put down people who make that choice,

Noone's putting anyone down.

you have NO right to tell them they're wrong.

On the contrary. I have every right, just like you do.

I have heard NOONE tell you guys that you SHOULDN'T have kept your children...everyone respects it was YORU CHOICE and you should give them the SAME FUCKING curtousy.

I've suggested lots of times that some people shouldn't have kids. Called the cops once too. But that they shouldn't have kids, and that they should kill them off are hardly the same thing, are they?


And, ON THE RECORD, I don't think that girls are the only ones responsable for birth control, pregnancy, or child rearing. IMHO, shotgun weddings are not a thing of the past. And the sight of a shotgun, might, just might, keep the boy's pecker in his pants where it belongs for a little while longer.

 

[Nixy]

Why was I doing it? Because I was taking the chance...because I'm 20...because I'm stupid...I'll be the first to admit it.

Why would I resent the child? Because I'm a child myself and I would take the blame off myself for ruining my life and place it on my child...not right but I know myself well enough to know that.

 

[Rose]

Just thought I'd stop by to see if anything has changed. Guess not.

No doubt this is one of the reasons many of the 'old' or 'regulars' aren't here much anymore or have moved on to bigger, better, whatnot forums.

 

[Nixy]

Last one never loved me, last one treated me like shit...and I let him...