Am I nuts or is it just them?

[Gonz]

What I'm telling you is they are not oblivious. They choose to be bums. Many of them make more money panhandling than they did as semi-skilled labor. For whatever screwed up reason, it was a conscious choice.

I'm not heartless...quite the contrary. I was sick of being taken advantage of & decided to look into things a little more closely. I was shocked & amazed. Now I'm pissed.

 

[Mare]

What I'm telling you is they are not oblivious. They choose to be bums. Many of them make more money panhandling than they did as semi-skilled labor. For whatever screwed up reason, it was a conscious choice.

I'm not heartless...quite the contrary. I was sick of being taken advantage of & decided to look into things a little more closely. I was shocked & amazed. Now I'm pissed.

ok ok , so your saying ppl CHOOSE to be bums???? What about a little old lady who never had any relatives or retirement funds and her social security was shit, and she got evicted and had a nervous breakdown, and just wondered the streets humming, one two buckle my shoe, three four wish i had a door, five six -Damn my mind is GONE.
And I wasnt calling YOU heartless hon, don't be pissed, but then again its better to be pissed off than pissed on...
Enough said in this thread for me, i dont argue on opinions anymore-everybody has there own. think its called free speak.

BTW Bish-Ditto

 

[Gonz]

I'm not pissed at you. I'm pissed at the scam that being pulled.

1/50,000 meets your description, if that.

 

[Mare]

I'm not pissed at you. I'm pissed at the scam that being pulled.

1/50,000 meets your description, if that.

please explain-the scam and meets my description-do you mean feeling sorry for ppl. I do get pissed off to -because im busting my ass trying to make a living for myself and 2 children and there are ppl out there that just dont give-is that what you mean??? (won't mention any names ( "X") thats a WHOLE other thread that I would NEVER go into)
But all in all I can relate to your opinions.

 

[Gonz]

The scam of being homeless in America. They prey on emotions. They make it bad for those who truly & desperately need assistance.

When 98% of a group claims BS problems. that leaves 2% with serious needs to get squashed because we can't believe their story or 100% to pay the bills of otherwise healthy & potentially productive individuals. I saw it daily in Los Angeles. I see in daily in Ft Wayne. I'm paying so somebody can be lazy & it irks me to no end.

Meets your description-th estory you wrote about the crazy old lady. She's one in a million & if you wait until she dies, you'll probably find she had a million stashed away.

 

[freako104]

I hate to do this but I am backng Gonz on this one. I tihnk the choices they made led them there. and here is a story for you all




A business man always passed a bum on his way to work. in all their conversations he learned the bum was actually very smart. He asked the bum why dont you work? the bum replied no I can make more money this way.




now not every homeless can say that but if they took the money they got and used it better I think they can make more for themselves. and they do prey on peoples emotions. and some people have fallen for it

 

[IDLEchild]

Do Bums not feel pain when they are kicked

Do Bums not cry when they are hurt

Do Bums not feel sad

Do Bums not scream when they are arrested for indecent exposure

Do Bums not feel cold

Do Bums not dream



Think about that for a second.

 

[freako104]

we never said they didnt BCD. they do. they are people too.

 

[Dave]

Do Bums not feel pain when they are kicked

Do Bums not cry when they are hurt

Do Bums not feel sad

Do Bums not scream when they are arrested for indecent exposure

Do Bums not feel cold

Do Bums not dream



Think about that for a second.

i thought about it....

....so what is your point?

 

[freako104]

BCD i wanted to add this. Gonz is right about the choices they have made. that doesnt mean they want to be homeless but the roads and decisions theyve made hvave made them homeless. But I did forget there are verterans who were screwed over and are homeless but again why not try to find an address(group home or shelter as an address) and try to get a job somewhere.

 

[IDLEchild]

I disagree with Gonz...not all choose their eventual fate...some were victim of the great philosophy "Shit happens"...

..but most of them...yeah, they fucked up somwhere along the line and 95% just accept that fact and move on rather than improve.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Not necessarily freako - do you honestly believe anyone makes choices hoping it would get them the bad results they achieve in the end? Yes, we all know that the choices we make in life influence or rather determine the outcome - but in cases like these it's a culmination of bad/ill-informed choices made by the individual as well as influencing factors such as economic recession (which is a world wide phenomenon), i. e - OTHER PEOPLE'S choices which are directly impacting on him as an individual.

And unfortunately if he is above a certain age he will find it difficult to find a job and turning to alcohol is a means to alleviate the pain that the life on the street inevitably brings.

If it were a child on the street that was the question of the discussion, would you still say he was responsible because of the choices he had made?

 

[A.B.Normal]

Meets your description-th estory you wrote about the crazy old lady. She's one in a million & if you wait until she dies, you'll probably find she had a million stashed away.

So even with money and wherewithall someone can "find" themselves on the street.I can't imagine that anyone would choose to live on the street with that kind of finances,there must be something "wrong with their Reality".Now imagine someone without the financial resources who "finds" themself on the street ,is it not possible they they aren't their because they "want" to be.

 

[freako104]

Not necessarily freako - do you honestly believe anyone makes choices hoping it would get them the bad results they achieve in the end? Yes, we all know that the choices we make in life influence or rather determine the outcome - but in cases like these it's a culmination of bad/ill-informed choices made by the individual as well as influencing factors such as economic recession (which is a world wide phenomenon), i. e - OTHER PEOPLE'S choices which are directly impacting on him as an individual.

And unfortunately if he is above a certain age he will find it difficult to find a job and turning to alcohol is a means to alleviate the pain that the life on the street inevitably brings.

If it were a child on the street that was the question of the discussion, would you still say he was responsible because of the choices he had made?

it is possible. if the child was out of control and the parents had to kick him/her out. but at the same time it might have been the parents fault.

 

[freako104]

I disagree with Gonz...not all choose their eventual fate...some were victim of the great philosophy "Shit happens"...

..but most of them...yeah, they fucked up somwhere along the line and 95% just accept that fact and move on rather than improve.

ill agree that the first part can be a cause but 9 out 10 its the choices they made in life.

 

[AlphaTroll]

it is possible. if the child was out of control and the parents had to kick him/her out. but at the same time it might have been the parents fault.

Damn Eric - how out of control would a child have to be for a parent to throw him/her out on the street with nowhere to go? IMO that's criminal neglect because up to a certain age parents are legally responsible for their children and if they are incapable of taking care of the child(ren) they become wards of the state and cared for in a foster system or welfare. It is of course a totally different story if the child is of an age where you could reasonably expect them to be mature enough to earn their own living etc.

From what I've seen most children who end up on the street do so because the circumstances at home have become unbearable (they are abused in one way or another, alcoholic parents etc) and they end up running away. So yes, they are making a choice that will directly influence the rest of their lives, but the choice they make is as a result of someone else's deeds, which is beyond their control. In many cases children are abandoned on the streets because their parents simply do not have the means to take care of them - that child didn't CHOOSE to be abandoned, so while on the street they do what they can to get by, which in most cases involves resorting to measures such as petty crimes (and possibly worse as time goes by), drug & alcohol abuse (in a study done among the many street children in SA majority of them admitted to sniffing glue - it helps them forget their immediate circumstances, dimishes the pain; both emotionally & physically, and it stills the hunger pains) and often prostitution.

For these children there is hardly a hope of becoming well educated and possibly being employed and more often than not they end up in a cycle of abuse.

And yes, there are cases where children run away from home because they have drug dependancy problems, or they are spoiled & want to prove a point etc, but IMO the choices they make are rash & not carefully thought out, as the case usually is with teenagers (who, according to research make the most impulse decisions of any age category) so to them it is an immediate solution to a problem they are having, often with little regard or understanding of the consequences.

 

[Professur]

Do Bums not feel pain when they are kicked.

They do when I'm doing the kicking

Do Bums not cry when they are hurt.

They do when I'm doing the kicking

Do Bums not feel sad.

They do when I'm doing the kicking

Do Bums not scream when they are arrested for indecent exposure.

They do when I'm doing the kicking

Do Bums not feel cold.

They do when I'm doing the kicking

Do Bums not dream.

They don't when I'm doing the kicking




Did I ever mention that I was the night manager of a hotel for a while? While Bish was feeling sorry for those losers, I was booting them out, into the cold, harsh Montreal nights. And yes, on occaision, they saw bootleather. But I never did have to resort to the stick.

 

[Gonz]

AT-a child is a victim of cicumstances. An adult needs to get over it.

Rough childhood? How sad. If we allow ourselves to become/stay victims of our past we can never grow. Everybody has a past. Some move on & some dwell im misery. They are both choices.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Ye know, I used to share those sentiments - then I started working with some of these 'bums' and it's a sad, scary lonely world that they occupy - made me grow up very fast & realise that the world is not cast in black & white.

 

[MrBishop]

Here's the situation in Montreal...might just be the same all around NOrth America for all I know.

There are a few hospitals in the area that deal with the insane and depressed. They have X number of beds. They have to deal with X + Y people. They can't, so some of the left over people get "weekend passes", that is...they get to go back to their families (if they have them or are acepted by them) or they get shown the door. They walk out and some of them come back...many don't. They leave with 2 days worth of pills...some actually take them but the nature of insanity is that you think that you're fine, and since you're fine..you don't need medication.

All those Y people are falling through the cracks in the medical system. Now, imagine that you're on the street for the weekend. You have no inclination to go back to the people who put you in there (family and friends), you don't want to go back to the hospital (effectivly a jail) and you're certainly not holding onto either the mental capacity or skill-set to get a job. Hell, you don't have a SIN# (Social Insurance) because your card is back at the hospital/home/family, you don't have money, you don't have an address to ship you SIN card to...no SIN card=no job. No job=no money, no money=no food, clothes, home, bus fare, copies of your CV, cash for a paper, etc... what are your chances of finding a job?

Minimal...and yet some do it anyway....only to lose their job because, guess what...they're insane. Oops...back in the hospital or jail. Get out of jail...same problems except that you now have a criminal record to help stop you from getting a job.

Some are lucky enough to have their families bail them out, or services, but most just keep falling through them cracks.

Look at the bums that you kick on the way to work...they talking to themselves? Why is that? Did homelessness drive them nuts or did insanity+society drive them homeless?

ps. Prof... I've had to throw plenty of homeless out of hotel lobbies and stairwells and back onto the street. Didn't like it, but I knew that my job was on the line. Never took any pleasure out of it, especially in the winter. Somehow I doubt that you did either...just pissed off that you HAD to do it as well, and pissed off that there will always be homeless people out there and more to kick out the next week. Oddly enough...you have a heart.