Another school shooting
- Thread starter Leslie
- Start date
Professur
Well-Known Member
Actually, I was sneering at the fact that the same incidents happen in loose lawed america and supertight Germany. It goes to prove that all the legislation in the world doesn't make a damn bit of difference. But the antigun activists don't seem to realize that and use incidents like this to call for even more useless laws, which only limit honest, lawful gun owners like myself.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
I agree with prof...go figure... 
Luis...I can understand your point-of-view, though. Mexico has had problems in the past with the Chiapas (sp?) region, so your population may believe that banning guns is the easiest way to control extremists. My personal belief is that every citizen over 21 years of age, and not convicted of any crime, should be REQUIRED to carry a weapon at ALL times, and be trained to use it. On top of that, there'd be an annual requirement to go through re-training. If convicted at a later date, why, you give up your weapons at the time of arrest. THAT way, everyone knows who the criminals are... and you also cut down on crime at the same time...Imagine a bank-robber trying to rob a bank when there's a good chance that every person in the bank is armed...
Luis...I can understand your point-of-view, though. Mexico has had problems in the past with the Chiapas (sp?) region, so your population may believe that banning guns is the easiest way to control extremists. My personal belief is that every citizen over 21 years of age, and not convicted of any crime, should be REQUIRED to carry a weapon at ALL times, and be trained to use it. On top of that, there'd be an annual requirement to go through re-training. If convicted at a later date, why, you give up your weapons at the time of arrest. THAT way, everyone knows who the criminals are...
and you also cut down on crime at the same time...Imagine a bank-robber trying to rob a bank when there's a good chance that every person in the bank is armed...
Gato:About the Chiapas issue, is not a big deal, since most mexicans actually "hate" EZLN (the group promoting some kind of internal war), and they are somewhat locked down in some jungles in Chiapas, the rest of the country is safe.
Guns are illegal in Mexico, and that's something i feel proud of.
However, there are still guns around there, but if you get caught, you will have to spend at least 6 years in jail. And as far as i remember, we have never had wackos shooting at innocent people in a school, office, or such places. The only shootings that come to place are those between cops and criminals (or between criminals themselves), i will not feel safe walking on the street knowing that almost everybody could be carrying a gun, no matter how strict laws are, the number of guns in the country will increase if they were legal, and it would be easier for criminals to steal or get guns.
Guns are illegal in Mexico, and that's something i feel proud of.
However, there are still guns around there, but if you get caught, you will have to spend at least 6 years in jail. And as far as i remember, we have never had wackos shooting at innocent people in a school, office, or such places. The only shootings that come to place are those between cops and criminals (or between criminals themselves), i will not feel safe walking on the street knowing that almost everybody could be carrying a gun, no matter how strict laws are, the number of guns in the country will increase if they were legal, and it would be easier for criminals to steal or get guns.
MitchSchaft
New Member
What does he mean? Over here, gun control advocates eat this stuff up. They believe banning guns will get rid of the "gun problem". But they don't understand that if you ban guns, ONLY criminals will have guns. Criminals do not obide by the law, so why will they pay attention to a nationwide ban on firearms? They won't! So, they will still have their firearms, while the law obiding citizens will have to sit by without the ability to truely defend themselves. You outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them. Plain and simple. Not only that, but it will take away 1 more freedom we have here in America.
MitchSchaft
New Member
See what I mean? They have a nationwide ban on guns. Guess who are the only ones with guns? Criminals.
Not all guns could be eliminated, because it was in the 50s (i think) when guns were banned.
Just to let you know:
There are no gun manufacturers in Mexico, if you want to get a gun by your own, you must buy one in USA, then attempt to cross the border with it (very risky). If you don't dare to get it on your own and decide to buy it illegaly, you will have to go and deal with criminals, that will sell the gun at a very high price.
Let's say that there are around 10,000 weapons in Mexico, all of them illegal, if the goverment decided to make guns legal, the number will increase from 10,000 to 10,000,000 in a very short time, what does this do?, it will only give criminals an easiest way to get guns to commit their crimes.
So you are one of those that think that drugs should be legal, since their current illegal status doesn't avoid people from being addicted to them. See what i mean?, if they make drugs legal, the number of addicts will increase, just because everybody will be able to get LEGAL cocaine in the drug store. The same goes for guns.
Just to let you know:
There are no gun manufacturers in Mexico, if you want to get a gun by your own, you must buy one in USA, then attempt to cross the border with it (very risky). If you don't dare to get it on your own and decide to buy it illegaly, you will have to go and deal with criminals, that will sell the gun at a very high price.
Let's say that there are around 10,000 weapons in Mexico, all of them illegal, if the goverment decided to make guns legal, the number will increase from 10,000 to 10,000,000 in a very short time, what does this do?, it will only give criminals an easiest way to get guns to commit their crimes.
So you are one of those that think that drugs should be legal, since their current illegal status doesn't avoid people from being addicted to them. See what i mean?, if they make drugs legal, the number of addicts will increase, just because everybody will be able to get LEGAL cocaine in the drug store. The same goes for guns.
MitchSchaft
New Member
My point exactly! Those guns that are not eliminated are owned by criminals. Those criminals do not pay attention to laws. If a criminal breaks into your house in the middle of the night he will not have to worry about there being any firearms in that house to stop him from raping your wife and killing your 3 children while you watch. Because guns are outlawed, you will not be able to defend yourself nor your family. Banning guns makes sence?
MitchSchaft
New Member
I don't think you even started to read my post! You will not be able to defend yourself with firearms being banned.
Let's suppose that i have a gun, and i have a wife and a couple of kids.
If i had a gun in my house, i should have it out of reach of my children, to avoid them from get themselves killed.
Now, let's say that a criminal silently breaks into my house in the night while i'm sleeping, by the time i'm getting "my gun" i will probably be against the barrel of the criminal's gun.
Or tell me, are you one of those that sleep with a loaded gun at the left side of the bed?
I would never do that with children in my house.
Your gun....5 meters from you, a criminal pointing at you, what do you do?
Ohhh, but you have a gun to protect yourself **sarcasm**
If i had a gun in my house, i should have it out of reach of my children, to avoid them from get themselves killed.
Now, let's say that a criminal silently breaks into my house in the night while i'm sleeping, by the time i'm getting "my gun" i will probably be against the barrel of the criminal's gun.
Or tell me, are you one of those that sleep with a loaded gun at the left side of the bed?
I would never do that with children in my house.
Your gun....5 meters from you, a criminal pointing at you, what do you do?
Ohhh, but you have a gun to protect yourself **sarcasm**
MitchSchaft
New Member
Better yet, you teach your kids the danger and proper, safe handling of firearms. I grew up around guns. With real bullets . Having guns around kids does not mean they will hurt themselves. It's up to what and how you teach them.
They do make safes to keep kids away from firearms. Safes that open quick and easily. You can mount one under your bed. You can put one in or on a nightstand next to your bed within arms length. Nobody but those who know the code can get in the safe.
And if you're leaving your house so compromisable that an intruder can break in silently, undetected, then that's another issue in itself.
. Having guns around kids does not mean they will hurt themselves. It's up to what and how you teach them. They do make safes to keep kids away from firearms. Safes that open quick and easily. You can mount one under your bed. You can put one in or on a nightstand next to your bed within arms length. Nobody but those who know the code can get in the safe.
And if you're leaving your house so compromisable that an intruder can break in silently, undetected, then that's another issue in itself.
I guess those kids that open fire in a school are taught how to handle a gun too.
Having guns doesn't reduce the criminality rates, like you said and i said, criminals doesn't follow the law. And there will always be criminals, it doesn't matter if you think that you're safer owning a gun, you're not.
Wearing a gun is also illegal in many places, and since most crimes take place out of your house, how does a gun helps you there? (let's remember that criminals do not obey the law, so they carry weapons in the street anyway).
(old US news) A guy that bought a gun legally, and then someday he decided to take the gun to the office and open fire there.
(repeatedly US news) A children stole a gun from his parents, he takes the gun to his school and open fire.
(yet another US news) A children kill himself when he was playing with a gun.
Endless stories.....none of them had happened in Mexico, why?, because guns are illegal.
No single person should own a gun, only military, police and such should have them, that's what they are for, to protect you, if your neighborhood is unsafe and somebody can break into your house even if you get to notice him....then that's another issue in itself (consider to move on).
Having guns doesn't reduce the criminality rates, like you said and i said, criminals doesn't follow the law. And there will always be criminals, it doesn't matter if you think that you're safer owning a gun, you're not.
Wearing a gun is also illegal in many places, and since most crimes take place out of your house, how does a gun helps you there? (let's remember that criminals do not obey the law, so they carry weapons in the street anyway).
(old US news) A guy that bought a gun legally, and then someday he decided to take the gun to the office and open fire there.
(repeatedly US news) A children stole a gun from his parents, he takes the gun to his school and open fire.
(yet another US news) A children kill himself when he was playing with a gun.
Endless stories.....none of them had happened in Mexico, why?, because guns are illegal.
No single person should own a gun, only military, police and such should have them, that's what they are for, to protect you, if your neighborhood is unsafe and somebody can break into your house even if you get to notice him....then that's another issue in itself (consider to move on).
I hate to hear of such news. No sane person could approve of these types of crimes.
However, the price we pay for freedom is innocent lives, plain and simple. If someone can't accept this, I encourage him or her to move to a country that has a government that will "take care of you", as if this were possible even if they had intentions of doing such.
Police in the U.S. are not bound legally to defend you. You call 911, if they don't respond, there is no recourse your family can take against them after you're dead. There have been many cases in our courts that have borne this out.
It is up to every man here to safeguard his home and loved ones to the best of his ability. It is cowardice to leave such an important duty to someone else.
The reason our country's founders thought it such a fundamental right (gun ownership) wasn't just to fight the British. It was to ensure that the people would be able to reclaim their liberty if our government became similar to the one in England, or worse. There are several arguments one could make that it already is in many ways, but this has mainly been done voluntarily on the people's (sheeple's) part. Much of the citizenry of the U.S. are liberal buffoons who believe the government really has their best interests at heart and will "take care of them", "make their lives better", and other such rubbish. I truly believe they see the government as a saviour. Flawed thinking.
However, the price we pay for freedom is innocent lives, plain and simple. If someone can't accept this, I encourage him or her to move to a country that has a government that will "take care of you", as if this were possible even if they had intentions of doing such.
Police in the U.S. are not bound legally to defend you. You call 911, if they don't respond, there is no recourse your family can take against them after you're dead. There have been many cases in our courts that have borne this out.
It is up to every man here to safeguard his home and loved ones to the best of his ability. It is cowardice to leave such an important duty to someone else.
The reason our country's founders thought it such a fundamental right (gun ownership) wasn't just to fight the British. It was to ensure that the people would be able to reclaim their liberty if our government became similar to the one in England, or worse. There are several arguments one could make that it already is in many ways, but this has mainly been done voluntarily on the people's (sheeple's) part. Much of the citizenry of the U.S. are liberal buffoons who believe the government really has their best interests at heart and will "take care of them", "make their lives better", and other such rubbish. I truly believe they see the government as a saviour. Flawed thinking.
MitchSchaft
New Member
Oh, you wanna talk stats now?
Rates per 100,000
Country------Homicide---Rate--firearms
South Africa--75.30----------26.60
Colombia------64.60----------50.60
Estonia-------28.21-----------8.07
Brazil--------19.04----------10.58
Mexico--------17.58-----------9.88
Philippines---16.20-----------3.50
Taiwan---------8.12-----------0.97
N. Ireland-----6.09-----------5.24
United States--5.70-----------3.72
Check this out. The homicide rate for tthe United Sates is 5.7/100,000 overall and 3.72/100,000 for firearms specific homicides.
Now let's compare that to your gun free Mexico. A homicide rate of 17.58/100,000 overall and 9.88/100,000 for firearm specific homicides.
You must be awefully proud.
Here's my source.
Louis, I ask you to read the following objectively and with a truly open mind.
I'm a little north of you, here in Texas, where it IS legal to carry a gun. We have what is referred to here as a "shall issue" clause whereby if we want to carry a gun and we have no criminal history, we can easily get the proper permit.
If you check, you'll find that anywhere lawful civilians are given the right to carry guns, the violent crime rate invariably DOES go down(dramatically in fact). This is well documented in Dr. Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime"
It also stands to reason: If the sheep have teeth, the wolves leave them alone.
This isn't only a U.S. phenomenon...If you look at the statistics from Australia and England, the violent crime rate has risen proportionaly to how strict their gun control laws become.
Conversely, in countries like Switzerland, where citizens are required to be armed, the violent crime rate is much lower. Makes sense, doesn't it?
I'm a little north of you, here in Texas, where it IS legal to carry a gun. We have what is referred to here as a "shall issue" clause whereby if we want to carry a gun and we have no criminal history, we can easily get the proper permit.
If you check, you'll find that anywhere lawful civilians are given the right to carry guns, the violent crime rate invariably DOES go down(dramatically in fact). This is well documented in Dr. Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime"
It also stands to reason: If the sheep have teeth, the wolves leave them alone.
This isn't only a U.S. phenomenon...If you look at the statistics from Australia and England, the violent crime rate has risen proportionaly to how strict their gun control laws become.
Conversely, in countries like Switzerland, where citizens are required to be armed, the violent crime rate is much lower. Makes sense, doesn't it?