Bloomberg on the proposed Muslim community center

[valkyrie]

Is the KKK still around?
I'd say if they did, it'd depend on circumstances of the community where they want to build.
No, no-one has absolute rights in that area, just like free speech...
there's certain restrictions there too.

http://vodpod.com/watch/4261769-ground-zero-mosque-imams-controversial-60-minutes-interview

Yes, the KKK is still around and they march in parades.
I'm not going to put a link here to their site. I have no intention of promoting them by giving their site another hit.

Regarding the Muslim community center....
The point remains that if the local government can deny or prevent one religion from opening a center then it opens a can of worms to prevent Christians (or any other religion) from opening community centers. Spike's example of the YMCA and YWCA (Young Men's Christian Association and Young Women's Christian Association) community centers is perfect. They were allowed to open though they were intended to be a Christian based community center.

No one has really explained why a religious organization should not be allowed to open a community center. Because that's what it boils down to.

 

[catocom]

again, for some of us, it's nothing to do with the religion.
It's the people involved.

I know the opposition wants to always dismiss that though, and makes us out to be bigots.

 

[spike]

What about the people involved?

Here's some info:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201008240027#rauf1

 

[catocom]

I like it when you answer your own questions....somestimes.
It cuts down on the time I might spend on a subject.

 

[spike]

So the people seem fine from what I've read. What is your issue with them?

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Sharia, a culture you might want to embrace but Americans do not want the culture.

Your guy, and you, wants to put Sharia into the United States

 

[spike]

Sharia, a culture you might want to embrace but Americans do not want the culture.

Actually Americans embrace all sorts of cultures. Kinda been that way from the beginning. What Americans don't want is religious bigotry as that goes directly against the core values this country was founded on and is extremely anti-American and most likely criminal if this bigotry was used to favor one religion over another when allowing the construction of religious buildings.

Sharia is one of those buzzwords fear mongered around to scare the naive, gullible, and easily frightened. In reality, like Biblical Law, it is subject to a wide variety of interpretations.

"Sharia (شريعة Šarīʿa; [ʃaˈriːʕa], "way" or "path") is the sacred law of Islam. All Muslims believe Sharia is God's law, but they have differences among themselves as to exactly what it entails.[1] Modernists, traditionalists and fundamentalists all hold different views of Sharia, as do adherents to different schools of Islamic thought and scholarship. Different countries and cultures have varying interpretations of Sharia as well."

You can learn a little something about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Your guy, and you, wants to put Sharia into the United States

Sharia, Jewish, Biblical, and other religious law have been in the United States for a hell of a long time. The people of these religions follow their particular interpretations of those to greater or lesser extent.

So your quote doesn't really make much sense.

 

[Cerise]

Moosie apologist, twelve o' clock!

 

[spike]

Anti-American religious bigotry ten o' clock!

I don't really need to defend all Muslims just because you irrationally hate all Muslims... or defend all black people from White Supremacists...or Jews from Nazis.

It's easy enough to just use reasoning to make the irrational nature of the hate obvious in a debate.

Spreading ridiculous hate like this does have real world effects and incites crimes and violence:

A 21-year-old college senior has been charged with attempted murder as a hate crime for allegedly slashing the face and neck of a Muslim taxi driver.

Police say suspect Michael Enright was drunk when he got into a cab on Tuesday night. He asked driver Ahmed Sharif if he was Muslim and celebrating the Ramadan holiday -- and then uttered the Arabic greeting "Assalamu alaikum" and said "Consider this a checkpoint," before slashing Shariff's neck and face. Enright jumped out of the cab and was quickly apprehended by police. The School of Visual Arts student is being held without bail on charges of attempted murder and assault as a hate crime.

Enright volunteered for the group Intersections International, that promotes interfaith dialogue. He also traveled to Afghanistan for his senior thesis, making a film about the average U.S. soldier.

The attack has heightened concern by taxi drivers that the debate over a proposed Islamic cultural center and mosque has raised tensions -- and perhaps played a role in the stabbing.

Bhairavi Desai of the Taxi Workers Alliance says the atmosphere is making drivers' jobs even more dangerous than usual.

"This is a debate saying that one group of New Yorkers, Muslims, are not as equal as other New Yorkers, non Muslims. And we are one of the most publicly identified of a large Muslim workforce."

Desai is recommending that drivers not talk with passengers about politics or religion. That's what driver Harris Hussnain says he's been doing. "The certain way they look at me...I mean I have a beard so you know, they know who I am," he says. "They will look at me at times like in a weird way. It does hurt my heart that people don't try to understand."

Gov. David Paterson and Mayor Michael Bloomberg denounced the crime as a bias attack. Bloomberg will host Ahmed Shariff, who survived the stabbing, and his family at City Hall on Thursday afternoon.

Drivers are urging Paterson to sign the Driver Protection Act, already passed by the state legislature in June, into law. It would require all taxis to post signs warning passengers that assulting a taxi driver is punishable by up to 25 years in prison.

http://beta.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-...-while-muslim-bias-crime-against-taxi-driver/

New York Man Terrorizes Mosque, Urinates On Prayer Rugs

Michael Enright’s attack on Ahmed H. Sharif, a cab driver from New York, is busy being dissected in the media right now. Whether Enright had become bitter and angry towards Muslims or he is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder following his trip to Afghanistan is something being debated by the media, and will end up in the courts sometime soon. The attack is just the tip of the iceberg with regards to anti-Muslim attacks in this country.

An intoxicated man entered a Queens mosque on Wednesday evening and urinated on prayer rugs. The man, who has been identified as Omar Rivera, also shouted anti-Muslim epithets and called worshipers at the mosque ‘terrorists.’ It has been reported that the man had a beer bottle in his hand when he did this.

Mustapha Sadouki, who was at the mosque at the time, has said “He stuck up his middle finger and cursed at everyone. He calls us terrorists, yet he comes into our mosque and terrorizes other people.”

FBI Special Agent Richard Kolko has stated that New York City has not seen any real change in the numbers of hate crimes reported by Muslims this year. Unfortunately, the number of attacks will likely rise as more people begin to attack Islam and Muslims in order to gain political advantage in the upcoming election.

Faiza Ali, a New York spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, stated “Without a significant response by mainstream political leaders, this disturbing trend will only continue to grow.”

http://lezgetreal.com/2010/08/new-york-man-terrorizes-mosque-urinates-on-prayer-rugs/


Do you cheer on these drunken bigots or denounce them?

 

[catocom]

So the people seem fine from what I've read. What is your issue with them?

I already told you, but apparently you can't remember too good.
I guess you'll have to re-read a thread or maybe 2.
I get weary of repeating myself all the time, like I'm on a witness stand.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

thats OK cat, its a proven waste of time.

Did you see that spike quoted the story about the pro-mosque liberal who stabbed an (anti-mosque) cabbie trying to promote the issue as it was fed to him; to blame the right.

 

[spike]

I already told you, but apparently you can't remember too good.
I guess you'll have to re-read a thread or maybe 2.
I get weary of repeating myself all the time, like I'm on a witness stand.

Just reread the whole thread and your complaints about the Imam amount to two things you made up:

1. Supports Hamas
2. Supports Al Qaeda

Both of those things are fabricated BS with absolutely no evidence.

Sorry if you feel like your on the witness stand but when you make up fictional crap like this to spread irrational bigotry and hate people are going to call you on it.

You notice how Rm made up some shit about the guy stabbing the cabbie being pro-mosque? and the cabbie being anti mosque? He then linked to an article that didn't show either of those things.

A reasoning person is going to notice that he made that up and also notice the fact that even if what he made up was true it would be completely irrelevant. But he goes ahead and posts it as if it justifies the spread of anti-American religious bigotry and hate. The kind of thing that promotes attacks like these against innocent people.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Oh lord, you have such a difficult time with reality. There is no way you can believe some of the things you post, nobody is that stupid.

And nothing has changed.

 

[spike]

You repeatedly make up shit in this thread and others and then repeatedly get it proven wrong ...then you think "I know! This time I'll try making up some fantasy crap. No one will ever notice!"

And you call me stupid for proving you wrong again. That's some funny shit.

I am entertained.

I wonder how many democrats you can find over at Stormfront.

 

[Cerise]

Just reread the whole thread and your complaints about the Imam amount to two things you made up:

1. Supports Hamas
2. Supports Al Qaeda

Both of those things are fabricated BS with absolutely no evidence.

Evidence from his own mouth:

He refuses to condemn violent jihad groups as terrorists.

Hmmmm. Strangely enough, so do you, spike.


Ground Zero Mosque Imam Feisal: "the United States has more blood on its hands than al Qaida,"

Again. Isn't that something you tend to believe?


Feisal Abdul Rauf in 2006: U.S. terrorism fostered Islamic terrorism

Etc. Haven't you said that on these very forums?


Feisal Abdul Rauf is a radical muslim. According to his religion, he is a terrorist and an enemy of the United States.

He must be deported or executed (as a non-uniformed enemy combatant).

 

[spike]

Evidence from his own mouth:

He refuses to condemn violent jihad groups as terrorists.

"I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy," Rauf said, insisting that he wants to see peace in Israel between Jews and Arabs."

Sounds reasonable. This cetainly does not equal supporting Hamas.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/imam_terror_error_efmizkHuBUaVnfuQcrcabL#ixzz0xwpwF7Lj

Ground Zero Mosque Imam Feisal: "the United States has more blood on its hands than al Qaida,"

So he's referring to the effects of the Iraq sanctions which are well documented...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions#Estimates_of_sanctions-related_deaths

Is that something you prefer people ignore?

So again, recognizing that both the US and Al Qaeda have blood on their hands does not equal supporting Al Qaeda.

Feisal Abdul Rauf in 2006: U.S. terrorism fostered Islamic terrorism

Etc. Haven't you said that on these very forums?

I've pointed out that our own intelligence agencies say that the war in Iraq increased terrorism.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html

Is that something you'd prefer people ignore?

Again, it would be ridiculous to try and stretch this into him supporting terrorism.

Feisal Abdul Rauf is a radical muslim. According to his religion, he is a terrorist and an enemy of the United States.

Actually not even close. His religion does nothing to make him a terrorist or enemy of the United States.

He must be deported or executed (as a non-uniformed enemy combatant).

Anyone who would take away religious freedom that the United States was founded on should be considered an enemy and deported or executed.

 

[ResearchMonkey]

(Politico) — The apparent anti-Muslim assault on a New York city cabbie by a man shouting “Assalamu Alaikum.
Consider this a checkpoint” produced an immediate round of recriminations over its connection to opposition to a New York Islamic Center and an apparent rising tide of Islamophobia.

But as often at the intersection of politics and violent crime, the story doesn’t appear to fit any easy stereotype: The alleged assailant, Michael Enright, is — according to his Facebook profile and the website of the left-leaning media organization Intersections International — a student at the School of Visual Arts and a volunteer for Intersections, which recently produced a statement of support for the Park51 project, and is funded by the mainstream, liberal Collegiate Church of New York.

Intersections did not respond to two messages, and the group does not appear to be picking up the phone. Enright did not respond to a message through his Facebook account.

But this appears to be the same man: Police described Enright as a resident of Brewster, 21, and an employee of an “Internet media company who had recently spent time with a combat unit in Afghanistan filming military exercises until this past May.”
​

Not to mention that his personal FaceBook page also had support for mosque on it.

It's not hard to find, Michael Enright was Pro-Park51 mosque.

You always pee on yourself with convoluted logic when you try to distort the truth, I love it. -- Your commie brethren in the media, bloomberg et al., are wearing egg on your face again on this. -- LOVE IT !!

 

[ResearchMonkey]

Anyone who would take away religious freedom that the United States was founded on should be considered an enemy and deported or executed.

I love the tolerance of the commie left, advocating for mass executions of political foes -- no surprises here. -- Get back to olberman.


nov 2nd.

 

[Cerise]

 

[spike]

Not to mention that his personal FaceBook page also had support for mosque on it.

It's not hard to find, Michael Enright was Pro-Park51 mosque.

So with a quick search to check your claim it looks like you made that up. The only mention on his Facebook page is his volunteer work at a non profit that had come out in support of Park 51.

So using straight forward reasoning, because a non profit he had previously volunteered for supported Park 51 certainly doesn't mean he supported it.

More importantly why the fuck would it matter? What would you point be? That he didn't attack the guy because he was muslim?

You always pee on yourself with convoluted logic when you try to distort the truth, I love it.

No, I pee facts on you to prove your made up shit wrong over and over. Now you have facts and egg on your face again.

This is quite entertaining. What's your next move going to be? Make up something and hope nobody checks it?

I love the tolerance of the commie left, advocating for mass executions of political foes

I was pointing out that it would be far more sensible to deport or execute people that would take away America's religious freedom than to execute people for their religion like Cerise and the fascist right advocate.