Cerise
Well-Known Member
The issue is whether or not the Ground Zero imam is a moderate.
I have posted several links pointing to the fact that by the behavior he demonstrates he is not.
Bloomberg on the proposed Muslim community center
- Thread starter spike
- Start date
The issue is whether or not the Ground Zero imam is a moderate.
I have posted several links pointing to the fact that by the behavior he demonstrates he is not.
2minkey
bootlicker
i think you're the only one that you've convinced. but, then, if you saw a story about a muslim couple enjoying a nice dinner together, you would conclude that they were discussing plans to blow up innocent christian babies. what you've been posting in this thread could be readily shredded by any 7th grade debate team. at this point you're like greenpeace activists - so unrealistically out there that you undermine any credibility you might have had.
spike
New Member
I have posted several links pointing to the fact that by the behavior he demonstrates he is not.
Everything you've posted so far has made him look very reasonable and moderate.
You however, come off as a radical extremist with your thoughts of executing people based on religion.
Tell me Cerise, are you cheering on all the new terrorism against Muslims or denouncing it?
Cerise
Well-Known Member
Why do you and your 7th grade debate team choose to ignore these facts?
Out of his own mouth in 2005. Such a moderate.
Out of his own mouth in 2005. Such a moderate.
Is Eason Jordon in charge of lying there too?
2minkey
bootlicker
LOL you're still undermining yourself.
the US DOES have more muslim blood on it's hands. at least 100,000 people have died in iraq. that is fact. he is a terrorist for simply understanding facts?
and, BTW, the US has a long history of supporting oppressive regimes. batista, somosa, the saudi royal family, mubarek, the shah of iran, the list goes on and on. we've had a long history of supporting whomever so long as they were not commies. i must be a terrorist too because i am aware of these facts.
he is a terrorist because he explains why he thinks people become suicide bombers? shit, most of the psychologists in the US must be terrorists because they've also speculated on that one. even the ones that work for the CIA! all terrorists!!!!!
because he favors one state rather than a two-state solution for the israeli-palestinian issue?
fuck, you've mentioned terrorism so many times here... YOU MUST BE A TERRORIST!!!!
sorry, honey, but you just can't pull anything coherent together here.
the US DOES have more muslim blood on it's hands. at least 100,000 people have died in iraq. that is fact. he is a terrorist for simply understanding facts?
and, BTW, the US has a long history of supporting oppressive regimes. batista, somosa, the saudi royal family, mubarek, the shah of iran, the list goes on and on. we've had a long history of supporting whomever so long as they were not commies. i must be a terrorist too because i am aware of these facts.
he is a terrorist because he explains why he thinks people become suicide bombers? shit, most of the psychologists in the US must be terrorists because they've also speculated on that one. even the ones that work for the CIA! all terrorists!!!!!
because he favors one state rather than a two-state solution for the israeli-palestinian issue?
fuck, you've mentioned terrorism so many times here... YOU MUST BE A TERRORIST!!!!
sorry, honey, but you just can't pull anything coherent together here.
I don't mean to dismiss your posts, cat. I never saw an answer to what I had asked. I apologize if you answered my question and I didn't see it. There's been a lot of trolling in this and other threads so it's been hard to keep up with the debate.I won't be responding in this thread anymore.
It's become Totally useless.
The same question over and over.
Then just dismissed, and it starts over yet again.
I suppose my position on this is as so...
If we can prevent these Muslims from opening their mosque and community center then the same can be done to other religions.
This country has a firm foot in "freedom of religion." The 1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Muslims have every right, by law, to open their Mosque and religious based community center. Same as the Christians.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Imam Feisal Abdel Rauf claims that the U.S. constitution is Sharia compliant. Now let us examine below a few laws of Sharia to see how truthful Imam Rauf is:
1- Jihad, defined as “to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion,” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.
2- A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.
3- A Caliph is exempt from being charged with serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape.
4- A percentage of Zakat (charity money) must go towards jihad.
5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.
6- A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave and a male.
7- The Muslim public must remove the Caliph if he rejects Islam.
8- A Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed immediately.
9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of: 1) an apostate 2) an adulterer 3) a highway robber. Vigilante street justice and honor killing is acceptable.
10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim, but will get it for killing a Muslim.
11- Sharia never abolished slavery, sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave.
12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, amputation of limbs, flogging even for crimes of sin such as adultery.
13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims under the law. They must comply to Islamic law if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.
14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. But Muslims can curse non-Muslims.
15- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.
16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.
17- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or bathhouse attendants. Women in low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.
18- A non-Muslim cannot rule — even over a non-Muslim minority.
19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.
20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and can be consummated at age 8 or 9.
21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.
22- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.
23- There is no community property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.
24- A woman inherits half what a man inherits.
25- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and none of them have a right to divorce him — even if he is polygamous.
26- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.
27- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.
28- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man.
29- A woman loses custody if she remarries.
30- To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses.
31- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.
32- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body, which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Not all Sharia schools allow the face of a woman exposed.
33- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife at the time he caught her in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women, since the man “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”
34-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory. That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.
The above are clear-cut laws in Islam decided by great Imams after years of examination and interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and Mohammed’s life. Now let the learned Imam Rauf tell us: What part of the above is compliant with the U.S. Constitution?
Sharia for Dummies
1- Jihad, defined as “to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion,” is the duty of every Muslim and Muslim head of state (Caliph). Muslim Caliphs who refuse jihad are in violation of Sharia and unfit to rule.
2- A Caliph can hold office through seizure of power meaning through force.
3- A Caliph is exempt from being charged with serious crimes such as murder, adultery, robbery, theft, drinking and in some cases of rape.
4- A percentage of Zakat (charity money) must go towards jihad.
5- It is obligatory to obey the commands of the Caliph, even if he is unjust.
6- A caliph must be a Muslim, a non-slave and a male.
7- The Muslim public must remove the Caliph if he rejects Islam.
8- A Muslim who leaves Islam must be killed immediately.
9- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of: 1) an apostate 2) an adulterer 3) a highway robber. Vigilante street justice and honor killing is acceptable.
10- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim, but will get it for killing a Muslim.
11- Sharia never abolished slavery, sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave.
12- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, amputation of limbs, flogging even for crimes of sin such as adultery.
13- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims under the law. They must comply to Islamic law if they are to remain safe. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their scriptures or openly celebrate their religious holidays or funerals. They are forbidden from building new churches or building them higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.
14- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. But Muslims can curse non-Muslims.
15- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.
16- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.
17- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or bathhouse attendants. Women in low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.
18- A non-Muslim cannot rule — even over a non-Muslim minority.
19- Homosexuality is punishable by death.
20- There is no age limit for marriage of girls. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and can be consummated at age 8 or 9.
21- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.
22- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.
23- There is no community property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.
24- A woman inherits half what a man inherits.
25- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and none of them have a right to divorce him — even if he is polygamous.
26- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.
27- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.
28- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man.
29- A woman loses custody if she remarries.
30- To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses.
31- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.
32- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body, which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Not all Sharia schools allow the face of a woman exposed.
33- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife at the time he caught her in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women, since the man “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”
34-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory. That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.
The above are clear-cut laws in Islam decided by great Imams after years of examination and interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and Mohammed’s life. Now let the learned Imam Rauf tell us: What part of the above is compliant with the U.S. Constitution?
Sharia for Dummies
spike
New Member
I see the problem. Your going by a fear mongering radical extremist site for you understanding of Sharia.
It be like if someone picked out all the most fucked up rules in christianity and portrayed that as everyday christian values. That's easy enough to do.
Here's just a little Leviticus ( I don't think it's compatible with the Constitution):
It be like if someone picked out all the most fucked up rules in christianity and portrayed that as everyday christian values. That's easy enough to do.
Here's just a little Leviticus ( I don't think it's compatible with the Constitution):
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
Are making shit up you or just trolling again? ©spike
Spike we all know, for a Catholic, you don't know shit about Christianity. You're irrelevant in that respect. BUT, while we are a nation built upon JudeoChristian values, we are not governed by Biblical law whereas Islam demand the government to be ruled under sharia.
I know you can't help it, your hatred of Christian morality just kills you. Your point is invalid. Please try harder.
spike
New Member
Actually I know more about Christianity then you likely ever will.
In reality we're not built on JudeoChristian values. We're built on enlightenment values.
No we are not governed by biblical law or sharia law and it looks lik most christians and muslims are fine with that. Some christians and muslims would like us to be governed by religious law though.
I don't hate Christian morality, you however have displayed tremendous irrational bigotry against Muslims.
catocom
Well-Known Member
wrong
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
No you don't. You constantly quote old testament, something happened to change ALL of that. Can you guess what that was?
I'm impressed you actually hung onto something Minx said, GOOD JOB!. I just don't think you or minx grasp the entire concepts being promoted here.
Correct, we have no state sponsored religion however the United States was founded on the JudeoChristian values.
Let me help you word-clear the difference.
We do not value the oppressive and violent Sharia law in the United States but we do value the JudeoChristian Value system in the United States.found 1 (found)tr.v. found·ed, found·ing, founds1. To establish or set up, especially with provision for continuing existence.val·ue (v
l
y
)n.
4. A principle, standard, or quality considered worthwhile or desirable.tr.v. val·ued, val·u·ing, val·ues
2. To regard highly. See Synonyms at appreciate.
Oh Lord, you couldn't tell a bigger lie. You have a seething hatred of anything Christan, just the word offends you. You don't ever miss an opportunity to bash it.
You are supporting Islam, you support a blood-thirsty 7th century religion that is at the heart of every war being waged on the planet.
I think you only value Islam in an attempt to devalue the Christian morality that has for so long has condemned your personal values, or lack thereof.
spike
New Member
Nothing changed all that. Some Christian sects choose not to emphasize it probably because it's so ridiculous but Jesus was certainly into it. Many other sects still teach from the Old Testament. Like the Muslim religion it kinda depends on the sect, country, culture, etc.
"Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as "the commandment of God" (Matthew 15:3) and as the "Word of God" (Matthew 15:6). He also indicated that it was indestructible: "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). Notice that he mentions even the words and letters!
When dealing with the people of His day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament: "Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God?" (Matthew 22:31); "Yea; and have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou hast prepared praise for thyself'?" (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and "Have you not read what David did?" (Matthew 12:3). Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Old Testament and its content. He quoted from it often and He trusted it totally."
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/reasons_skeptics/ch_06/default.htm
I'd be glad to quote ridiculous stuff from the New Testament too though. There's no shortage or anything.
The concept being that you are ignoring all facts.
No, enlightenment values.
In reality Sharia Law and Biblical Law in general are not violent or oppressive. Both Sharia and Biblical law can be interpreted in a violent and oppressive way depending on your sect, country, culture, etc.
In the United States we don't favor one religion over another. It's a core AMerican value.
Ah, making up more crap. I'm not a fan of religion in general but I don't hate either of them. Both can be peaceful and both can be bloodthirsty. It's the bigots that think their religion is superior to others that cause most of the problems.
My personal values are pretty in line with most of Jesus' teachings. You however don't seem to have much use for them and instead align yourself towards hatred and cheer for things like 100s of thousands of dead civilians that someone following Jesus' teachings would certainly condemn.
ResearchMonkey
Well-Known Member
I wish you had the complex metacognitive skills of a 3rd grader. Keep smoking that dope.
