Detainees legally held

Rose said:
You know, call it what you want, but we're at war. Or at least were. Even if it wasn't "war on paper" or "approved by congress".

When our service men and women are out there risking their lives, fighting because we told them to fight - they are fighting a war.
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But, are the people being held in durance vile related to Iraq, Afghanistan, terrorism or none of the above? That's the question Rose. I'm afraid it's a very small step from what's happening now to "this guy knows stuff that could lose the election for us, let's lock him up incommunicado." It could already be happening and we'd never know. I don't think it is, but if anyone believes it can't happen here, they're a fool.
 
1994: Tom Clancy, a favorite author of the CIA and the Pentagon, publishes "Debt of Honor", which describes a terrorist crashing a 747 with a full fuel load into the Capitol, killing the President and many of the House and Senate members.
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just for the record; that was "executive orders" ;)

debt of honor involves a lot of nasty things between the US and the Japanese (reading the book at the moment :D)


lol @ squiggy :D
 
chcr said:
But, are the people being held in durance vile related to Iraq, Afghanistan, terrorism or none of the above? That's the question Rose. I'm afraid it's a very small step from what's happening now to "this guy knows stuff that could lose the election for us, let's lock him up incommunicado." It could already be happening and we'd never know. I don't think it is, but if anyone believes it can't happen here, they're a fool.
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We've certainly supported a number of dictators who followed that policy. Pinochet comes to mind, for one.
 
and including a lot of others as well...but as always with upcoming elections (AND the propaganda and indoctrination in the US) the people just hear what the government wants them to hear.
as long as people in the US don't actively seek for more information, they only hear the governments point of view.

of course a lot of people won't agree with me here, but i've been there myself. i still recall that i only found out the berlin wall had collapsed, half a year AFTER it happened, which was the time i got home after living in the US for a year.

for some reason the government doesn't want the people to know what's happening outside their country.
 
I don't think it's the gov't. There are newspapers, television programs and radio broadcasts readily available with news of the world outside US borders. The problem is 90% of the population doesn't give a damn. They have zero interest in what goes on outside their own borders, and instead prefer to live in some sort of pre-Copernican universe where the world revolves around THEM. :disgust:
 
and of course that a lot of people watch CNN, for the most unbiased available news ;)

at least that's ONE thing Gonz and i agree on...if not the only one :p
 
Shadowfax said:
and including a lot of others as well...but as always with upcoming elections (AND the propaganda and indoctrination in the US) the people just hear what the government wants them to hear.
as long as people in the US don't actively seek for more information, they only hear the governments point of view.

of course a lot of people won't agree with me here, but i've been there myself. i still recall that i only found out the berlin wall had collapsed, half a year AFTER it happened, which was the time i got home after living in the US for a year.

for some reason the government doesn't want the people to know what's happening outside their country.
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Hate to disagree with something that's substantially correct, but the Berlin Wall falling was all over the news. How else could Reagan have taken credit for it?
 
Good point :)

Maybe it was a local thing then...something of Houston, Texas...'cause we sure didn't hear anything about it. Just my personal experience :)
 
Bush was given a declaration of war in late Sept/early Oct 01 by the US Congress.

Police Action = Authorization of force = declaration of war = WAR

PT- I was waiting for someone to notice that :D I justify it because we're not talking about temporary safety, this is war.
 
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
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Warpwers Act
 
Shadowfax said:
Good point :)

Maybe it was a local thing then...something of Houston, Texas...'cause we sure didn't hear anything about it. Just my personal experience :)
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Ah, I see, Texas. We're talking about a different planet then. :)
 
So many other things to go after & I'm still swimming in lack of nicotine stupidity so I'll try to keep to one point.

Ms said:
Technically? I don't believe so, Bish. A 'conflict' or 'police action' perhaps. Congress never formally declared war, only the authorization of force.
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It's a lawyers world. I'm with chcr-let just kill 'em all.

"Conflict", "Authorization for use of force", blah blah blah is the work of some Congressional busy-bodies (most likely former atorneys) who didn't have the cajones to call a war by it proper name. Use of force sounds much less dangerous & nasty than blowing the enemy to shit.

I can define war & I wish all the courts in teh world would use this definition

WAR-the use of force, sanctioned by a government, against another.
 
Shadowfax said:
and including a lot of others as well...but as always with upcoming elections (AND the propaganda and indoctrination in the US) the people just hear what the government wants them to hear.
as long as people in the US don't actively seek for more information, they only hear the governments point of view.

of course a lot of people won't agree with me here, but i've been there myself. i still recall that i only found out the berlin wall had collapsed, half a year AFTER it happened, which was the time i got home after living in the US for a year.

for some reason the government doesn't want the people to know what's happening outside their country.
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Were you in a cave in the US, Shadowfax? The Berlin Wall videos from CNN were shown as it happened. Then shown again, and again, and again, and again...Even today they use those shots in their promos. :shrug:


Oops...Houston is one step below a cave. ;) I won't delete this post because I think it's kinda funny. :p
 
If we are indeed at "War" then aren't we bound to certain rules of behavior towards the treatment of POWs as specified in the Geneva Convention? Isn't that why "War" hasn't been formally declared since World War II? Because it allows us certain 'freedoms' in our actions we wouldn't otherwise have?
 
OK, colour me stupid, but I re-read this article (twice) and nowhere does it state that any detainees are still being held. It simply states that they were arrested or detained at the time of the 9/11 attacks.

The appeals court said the government could keep secret the names of more than 700 individuals detained on immigration violations and those arrested as material witnesses in the investigation ...

The appeals court said the government could also keep secret the dates and locations of the arrest, detention and release of all detainees, including those charged with federal crimes, and the names of the lawyers representing them.
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In fact:

Disclosure also could "expose the identified individuals to harassment and intimidation and could destroy any ongoing intelligence value they might have," the lawyers said.
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If they are still being detained, how could they be harassed and intimidated??

I think you all just made a huge leap in logic...
 
chic didnt you at some point say Bush and Cheny are tearing away the Constitution? I am believing you now.
 
As well you should freak. it took eons of careful ENRON planning to get that particular set of Haliburton Justices on the bench years before we accused binLaden of attacking our cities & then going in & whooping on saddam. Careful planning & well placed Senators & Congressmen & of course, teh careful buying off of enough American voterws to guarantee a tight but controlled Presidential election.

Oh you should be scared.

of the bullshit.
 
I dont usually fear the BS as its all a part of politics but it scares me when A)rights are infriged or going to be or B) lives are at steak.
 
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