Dumbing down in Britain

2minkey said:
there are lots of orthodoxies embraced in lieu of knowledge and careful consideration around here.
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Ain't that the truth?

Sadly, tragicly, without change, there's gonna be some awfully surprised people some day. When they get their proof, but it's too late to do anything with it. But hey, whadda I know, right? I'm just an ignorant hillbilly, swallowing what was spoonfed to me by equally ignorant hillbillies generations preceding. At least Chic gives credit for an ability to think, even if he holds the opinion that said ability is wantonly supressed on the issue. The basis of agreed disagreement I'd say..but whadda I know...

The fact that some who have studied various possibilities from multiple angles and comes to the conclusion that the faith they have is in fact plausible never enters into the narrow window of possibilities I guess...and yet those who DO believe are the ones with blinders on.

2minkey said:
umm, yeah...
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Ironic as it may seem, this is the one issue I really don't want to win the discussion about AFTER the fact. But hey, there's a reason it's referred to as the straight and NARROW way...most won't travel it.
 
Face it. If you believe in the deity of your choice or if you believe in no deity, it's all faith.

Nobody has a superior position.
 
Gonz said:
Face it. If you believe in the deity of your choice or if you believe in no deity, it's all faith.

Nobody has a superior position.
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No, if you claim the existence of anything with nothing other than anecdotal evidence, you are clearly in the inferior position. If you say, for instance, the earth is a disc resting on the back of four giant elephants who are, in turn, standing on the back of an enormous turtle and I then say "prove it," your inability to produce anything other than a few notes and letters by someone claiming that someone else told them that it's true clearly puts you in an inferior position. Note that the inferior position does not in any way preclude being correct, It simply makes it much harder to accept.

By the way, it's certainly not all "faith." It's either faith or the lack thereof, which is very much not the same thing, despite your opinion. A lack of faith is not faith in a lack. That particular semantic debate was resolved long ago. You are, of course, in no way required to accept conventional wisdom on this point.

SouthernN'Proud said:
Yet.
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Yep, it's only been 2000 years. I'm sure you're fully prepared to wait. I find such patience both laudable and incomprehensible myself. :shrug: I do find it rather indicative though, that, other than a few quasi-ritualistic observances, self-professed believers prepare for the supposedly possibly incipient arrival in much the same way that I completely fail to.

As I'm fond of telling people who want to debate this though, believe what you want to, I do. In case you can't tell, I may have discussed this before. ;)
 
chcr said:
Yep, it's only been 2000 years. I'm sure you're fully prepared to wait.
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I've only been waiting 41 years.

I find such patience both laudable and incomprehensible myself.
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I find all manner of things laudable and incomprehensible. Charo, for instance...

I do find it rather indicative though, that, other than a few quasi-ritualistic observances, self-professed believers prepare for the supposedly possibly incipient arrival in much the same way that I completely fail to.
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And therein lies the rub. It's more than what happens at church service. It's a personal walk, therefore no two will walk it the same way. I abstain from defending anyone else's walk. Mine is all I can worry about.

As I'm fond of telling people who want to debate this though, believe what you want to, I do. In case you can't tell, I may have discussed this before.
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As have we all. Ain't but one way either of us will ever find out if we're right though. To paraphrase the standard reasoning, this means either I've wasted X years while on this planet, or you'll waste eternity, barring a conversion. It ain't risk management...heard that one before too. It's a topic I've consciously chosen to avoid on this site, at least to the degree I otherwise would, in the interest of harmony.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
Ain't but one way either of us will ever find out if we're right though.
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Actually, that's not quite right. If I'm right, neither one of us will ever know it. If I'm wrong, then I shall attempt to register a complaint (several, actually but then I'm not wrong). ;)

Re the discussion itself, I've had it dozens if not hundreds of times before over the years. I'm pretty well convinced at this point, as, I assume, are you. I also can't accept the concept of eternity. Anything that has a beginning also has an end by definition.
 
I tell Atheists this:

One of these days, one of us is going to be very disappointed for a long, long time.

If things are, as you believe, that there is no God, Heaven, Hell, or afterlife -- and all that will happen is that I will "poof" into nothingness, and everything I have ever been or ever strived for evaporates into nothingness -- then there can be no disapppointment as I will simply cease to exist.

If, however, things are as I believe you are going to be very disappointed.
 
chcr said:
I also can't accept the concept of eternity. Anything that has a beginning also has an end by definition.
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By definition, it has neither.

e·ter·ni·ty [i-tur-ni-tee]
–noun
1. infinite time; duration without beginning or end.
2. eternal existence, esp. as contrasted with mortal life: the eternity of God.
3. Theology. the timeless state into which the soul passes at a person's death.
4. an endless or seemingly endless period of time: We had to wait an eternity for the check to arrive.
5. eternities, the truths or realities of life and thought that are regarded as timeless or eternal.

[Origin: 1325–75; ME eternite < L aeternitās. See eterne, -ity]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
 
chcr said:
By the way, it's certainly not all "faith." It's either faith or the lack thereof, which is very much not the same thing, despite your opinion. A lack of faith is not faith in a lack. That particular semantic debate was resolved long ago. You are, of course, in no way required to accept conventional wisdom on this point.
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The fact that you believe that you are correct is faith since you can't prove a negative.

I have no belief. I find the atheist argument more ludicrous than a religions followers because they are attempting to find value where none may exist. The atheist is simply trying to tear down what he does not understand.
 
Gonz said:
The fact that you believe that you are correct is faith since you can't prove a negative.

I have no belief. I find the atheist argument more ludicrous than a religions followers because they are attempting to find value where none may exist. The atheist is simply trying to tear down what he does not understand.
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You completely fail to understand atheism. Not surprising to me but there it is. You're wrong though, I fully understand, it's just frankly impossible for me to believe. :shrug:
 
Scottish government drafts Cat Welfare Code
Click here for feline wellbeing enlightenment
By Lester Haines → More by this author
Published Thursday 7th February 2008 13:56 GMT


The Scottish government has tackled the thorny issue of cat welfare by issuing a Draft Cat Welfare Code of Practice aimed at providing "basic information and guidance to those responsible for cats on how to care for them".

This exhaustive document contains essential info for those Scots who aren't feline-savvy, such as the revelations that "different cats will have different needs", inquisitive moggies may end up in tumble dryers and that nine lives won't save your pet from if it falls from your sixth-floor balcony.

There's more. Apparently, to keep your cat healthy, it is "essential to provide it with a nutritionally balanced diet from early in its life" (ie, meat, and plenty of it, with the occasional fish and a half-a-dozen songbirds a year).

Wannabe cat owners should also bear in mind that "some cats are naturally more confident than others" and "a cat that is not used to people may hiss, spit or lash out when cornered".

The draft code is now out for consultation to "ensure that the advice contained in the code is accurate, practical and realistic", but we can't help feeling that the taxpayer will be a little disappointed to find that it does not contain the essential advice that "cats will always wrap themselves around your feet when you're descending a steep flight of stairs bearing a large amount of crockery on a tray".

Oh yes, and if you prefer your animal companions to be of the canine persuasion, the Scottish government has spared no expense addressing the matter.

Since the Caledonian powers that be evidently take animal welfare pretty seriously, Scottish hamster owners among you are invited to lobby your goverment for a draft code explaining fully the benefits and potential pitfalls of the traditional hamster wheel, and how to minister to your companion's physical and spiritual needs. ®
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Source
 
jimpeel said:
I tell Atheists this:

One of these days, one of us is going to be very disappointed for a long, long time.

If things are, as you believe, that there is no God, Heaven, Hell, or afterlife -- and all that will happen is that I will "poof" into nothingness, and everything I have ever been or ever strived for evaporates into nothingness -- then there can be no disapppointment as I will simply cease to exist.

If, however, things are as I believe you are going to be very disappointed.
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you gotta wonder, though, does "god" give a shit if you believe in s/he/it? really. and does the human punyness of some act of declaring specific belief really impact much? I doubt it. or, if god really cares about something - in the sense of granting admission through the pearly gates - so teeny weeny in comparison to leading a life full of ethical choices and compassion (where appropriate), than that god is, well, pretty stinking petty. and likely underserving of worship.
 
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