Hamas claims majority in new Palestinian elections

[chcr]

So would you care to show me what I'm missing? I quoted you after all.

*sigh* It won't really help, but here goes. My point was that some sources report this stuff as fact while I certainly don't know. Your quote has me stating it as fact. A small but very important distinction, wouldn't you agree? When you quote out of context like that, it completely changes my point. I don't like it. It is possible to quote something out of context and not alter the meaning, you just need to be able to recognize the difference. Even now, you're arguing semantics, I'm arguing content. We aren't even discussing the same thing.

 

[Gonz]

A distinction not needed to be made, assuming people read the thread. I used that line as a jumping off point. Had I used the whole damn line it would have said exactly the same thing.

Hamas are terrorists.

 

[chcr]

A small but very important distinction

 

[MrBishop]

Both sides of the Issue:

The election shows that the will of the Palestinian people has no problem with terrorism. "Islam is the religion of peace" is a complete myth. The idea only 1-2% of Muslims are for radical Islam is patently false. There is not a significant number of moderate Muslims and it appears that most followers of Islam hate the West. A war on Islam is looming.


Western Media has misrepresented Hamas: they are not terrorists. They are more than just a bunch of rag tag suicide bombers and their humanitarian efforts were more effective in helping the Palestinian people than that of the Fatah government. Hamas will mellow out and continue the peace process.

You sure can stretch a point beyond pure silliness and into utter stupidity, can't ya? Congrats!

 

[MrBishop]

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said Thursday he was ready to maintain a cease-fire with Israel forged in February 2005 if Israel does likewise, but that the Islamic group will respond to attacks.

"If they are going to continue commitment to what is called quietness, then we will continue," he said in an interview with Associated Press Television News. "But if not, then I think we will have no option, but to protect our people and our land."

The impromptu interview took place in the garden of Zahar's Gaza City home, where he received party officials and other well-wishers who came to congratulate him on the militant Islamic group's apparent victory in Wednesday's parliamentary elections.

Asked if a Hamas-run government would enter peace talks with Israel, Zahar said there that even prior to his party's apparent political victory there had been no movement toward peace and therefore, there is no point to hold dialogue at this time.

"We have no peace process," he said. "We are not going to mislead our people to tell them we are waiting, meeting, for a peace process that is nothing."

Zahar said the fact that senior Hamas officials, many of them in Gaza, would be unable to cross Israeli lines to reach Palestinian government headquarters in the West Bank town of Ramallah would not prevent them from taking part in decision-making, as many members of the outgoing parliament had been in the same position.


They are running an administration through video-conferencing," he said. "We are going to continue this policy."

He promised a complete overhaul of Palestinian public services and administration.

"We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, as regards industry, as regards agriculture, as regards social aid, as regards health, administration, education," he said.

SOurce


Imagine that...terrorists calling a cease fire!!?! What will they think of next?

 

[Gonz]

WILL RESPOND TO ATTACKS.

Define attack.

 

[Gonz]

Oh look, they're rejoicing

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Firing into the air, Fatah gunmen and police stormed Palestinian parliament buildings on Saturday in growing unrest after their long-dominant party's crushing election defeat by Hamas Islamists.

Hamas leaders meanwhile rejected as "blackmail" Western demands that it renounce violence against Israel or risk losing aid vital to the survival of the Palestinian Authority. Hopes of peacemaking with Israel have been pushed further into limbo.

Reuters

 

[Winky]

well the fact that the terrorist Pali's
elected terrorist Hamas
to run their lil' terrorist outfit
kinda points too um mebbe
they are fookin' terrorists

Nah couldn't be, heh

all the Jews are outta Gaza by design
that way when the assault is launched
the IDF won't have to worry about them being
taken hostage
or being killed as collateral damage

 

[The Other One]

You're saying you don't want to encourage democracy in the Middle East? Ithought that was Bush's goal? Weird.

What do you mean? Looks like Democracy to me. Now if the Democratically elected leaders end up bringing war upon themsleves who is to blame?

Seems Israel is making the agressive actions....

Israel knows how to take care of itself....

Would that mean when Israel feels the teeth of retaliation, they can't whine about it. There will be no innocent "victims", no such thing as collateral damage?

That would mean it was a reference to a bin Laden remark, but it can still be used here:

The Pals have demonstrated they embrace terrorism by electing Hamas to govern them; they have no one to blame but themselves when push comes to shove.

 

[Gonz]

You're saying you don't want to encourage democracy in the Middle East? Ithought that was Bush's goal? Weird.

What do you mean? Looks like Democracy to me. Now if the Democratically elected leaders end up bringing war upon themsleves who is to blame

As I recall, Hitler was duly & freely elected.

Hmmm, Hitler hated Jews...Hamas hates Jews...is there a pattern developing?

 

[Trau]

Hitler was elected to the Reichstag but he was never elected to the chancellery.

 

[chcr]

As I recall, Hitler was duly & freely elected.

Hmmm, Hitler hated Jews...Hamas hates Jews...is there a pattern developing?

By your logic, President Bush hates the jews too.

 

[Gonz]

He's called for them to be destroyed?

 

[flavio]

Now if the Democratically elected leaders end up bringing war upon themsleves who is to blame?

The Pals have demonstrated they embrace terrorism by electing Hamas to govern them; they have no one to blame but themselves when push comes to shove.

Who's the terrorists bringing the war again?

The record of Israeli terrorism goes back to the origins of the state - indeed, long before - including the massacre of 250 civilians and brutal expulsion of seventy thousand others from Lydda and Ramle in July 1948; the massacre of hundreds of others at the undefended village of Doueimah near Hebron in October 1948;...the slaughters in Quibya, Kafr Kassem, and a string of other assassinated villages; the expulsion of thousands of Bedouins from the demilitarized zones shortly after the 1948 war and thousands more from northeastern Sinai in the early 1970's, their villages destroyed, to open the region for Jewish settlement; and on, and on."Noam Chomsky, "Blaming The Victims," ed. Said and Hitchens."

"Barak promised peace and brought war, and not by accident."

"(Barak) promised peace and brought war, and not by accident. While speaking about peace, he enlarged the settlements. Cut the Palestinian territories into pieces by 'by-pass' roads. Confiscated lands. Demolished homes. Uprooted trees. Paralyzed the Palestinian economy..Conducted negotiations in which he tried to dictate to the Palestinians a peace that amounts to capitulation. Was not satisfied with the fact that by accepting the Green Line, the Palestinians had already given up 78% of their historic homeland. Demanded the annexation of 'settlement blocs" and pretended that they amount only to 3% of the territory, while in fact he meant more than 20% would remain under Israeli control. Wanted to coerce the Palestinians to accept a 'state' cut off from all its neighbors and composed of several enclaves isolated from each other, each surrounded by Israeli settlers and soldiers...Boasts publicly that he has not given back to the Palestinians one inch of territory...When the intifada broke out, sent snipers to shoot, in cold blood from a distance, hundreds of unarmed demonstrators, adults and children. Blockaded each village and town separately, bringing them to the verge of starvation, in order to get them to surrender. Bombarded neighborhoods. Started a policy of mafia-style 'liquidations', causing an inevitable escalation of the violence." Israeli peace activist, Uri Avnery, February 3, 2001, www.gush-shalom.org

"Just an hour's drive from Jerusalem, a cruel drama has been underway for the past five months, the likes of which have not been seen since the early days of the Israeli occupation, but the majority of Israelis are taking absolutely no interest in it. The iron grip of the closure in its new format is increasingly strangling a population of 2.8 million people, yet no one is saying a word. . .

"It has to be said starkly and simply: There has never been a closure like this there, in the land of barriers and closure. In the worst of times of the previous Intifada, when the iDF was in eveÄr and curfew reigned supreme, there was not a situation in which a whole people was jailed without a trial and without the right of appeal.

"Israel has split the West Bank by means of hundreds of trenches, dirt ramparts and concrete cubes which have been placed at the entrance to most of the towns and villages. No one enters and no one leaves, not those who are pregnant and not those who are dying. There isn't even a soldier with whom one can plead and beg. A network of bizarre Burma roads that break through the encirclement are sending an entire people along muddy, rocky routes, with the situation aggravated by a substantial risk of getting caught or getting shot by soldiers who often open fire on the desperate travelers. . .

"Never before has there been distress and suffering on this scale among the Palestinians in the territories. They will engender unprecendented despair and ultimately they will spark violence more cruel and painful than anything seen so far. . . This is the point: the horrific distress of the Palestinians because of the present closure will quickly turn into the distress of the Israelis. . . The current siege, a shamefully appalling operation, must be lifted quickly. This must not be made conditional on the cessation of the violence, because the siege itself is the most effective spur to violence." Israeli writer, Gideon Levy, in Ha aretz, March 4, 2001

 

[Trau]

Let's not pretend that the Palestinians (and many other Muslims) have called for the annihilation of Israel and its peoples.

Let's not pretend that the Palestinian claim to Israel is pretty much entirely bullshit.

Let's not pretend that the Palestinian "freedom fighters" don't specifically target civilians like cowards. Let's not pretend they don't hide among the Palestinian civilians, also like cowards.

 

[Winky]

I am the great pretender
wee oow weee oow

 

[flavio]

Let's not pretend that the Palestinians (and many other Muslims) have called for the annihilation of Israel and its peoples.

Let's not pretend that the Palestinian claim to Israel is pretty much entirely bullshit.

Let's not pretend that the Palestinian "freedom fighters" don't specifically target civilians like cowards. Let's not pretend they don't hide among the Palestinian civilians, also like cowards.

I think it would give a better understanding of the situation if we looked at the fact that the Israeli's have actually been annihiliating Palestine and it's peoples....and that originally and for the most part the Israeli's have been the aggressors.

It's probably good to realize also that the Israeli claim to Palestine is certainly bullshit. In fact it's even difficult justify the creation of Israel in 1948 at all. Jews immigrated to Palestine from other countries, subjugated the native people, dispossesed and expelled them from their land, denied them polital rights, destroyed their villages, indicriminately used torture, massacred civilians like cowards, and and left hundreds of thousands of refugees homeless and starving.

The fact that Israel is a state built on conquest, that it has invaded surrounding countries, bombed and destroyed at will, to the fact that it currently occupies Lebanese, Syrian, and Palestinian territory against international law, and violated UN mandates and Geneva conventions might have something to do with their outlook on the Jews.

That Israel has incredible military superiority in large part because of weapons and massive funding from the US could explain the use of terrorist tactics instead of conventional battles and their hostility towards America.

Actually it's incredible that the media hasn't considered this a better explanation for "Islamic Terror" than the usual blaming it on Muslim idealogy, "they despise our way of life", or "hate freedom".

It also makes it seem likely that a more responsible foreign policy could actually decrease terrorism and hostility instead of Bush's war which has increased them. Maybe that's not the goal though.

 

[Winky]

OK OK OK Flavy we get it
yer on the side of the jihad jonnies and
want to kill the jews, sheesh enough already

as fer the Israelis annihilation of the pali's C'Mon big boy

The Israelis have had the resources to nuke them all into
unqualified extermination inna afternoon, for years

Wait til the pali's get the same? tools
would they restrain themselves from doin' it?

 

[Professur]

OK OK OK Flavy we get it
yer on the side of the jihad jonnies and
want to kill the jews, sheesh enough already

as fer the Israelis annihilation of the pali's C'Mon big boy

The Israelis have had the resources to nuke them all into
unqualified extermination inna afternoon, for years

Wait til the pali's get the same? tools
would they restrain themselves from doin' it?

I beg to differ, based on the information offered by a friend and former high ranking member of JJR512.com : Hani. As a palestinian, I'd grant that he'd have better knowledge than the average news spewer. Per him, Palestinians aren't a nationality, or even a race, but a tribe. A tribe spread worldwide. And unlike most westerners, they don't change affiliations based on where they were born, or where they live now. Sort of like Scots, they keep their clan name no matter where they are.

 

[Winky]

Well thar you go...