How Far is Too Far? Are we close to a revolutionary war?

Voting does no good. Americans are too stoopid to know what their leaders are doing. They vote these people in and never bother to check to see what they are doing once in office. Most of the people that vote don't even have a clue what the candidate stands for. They just vote because their name sounds good or some other idiotic reason.

Look at Bill Clinton for example. He sold out the country when he signed NAFTA in. Everybody thinks he is a great guy, but he was busy getting blow jobs and selling out the Labor Sector in this country.


*i said stoopid not stupid
 
i dont like it either and to quote good ol ben franklin
those who would give up liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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but this sniper has killed 9 people and is making people in this area scared. the schools are in lock down kids arent going to class etc. so im somewhat for it but i want him caught and i want him to suffer. to see my feelings on this please see the other threads regarding this.
 
We've seen this shit before. The Son of Sam case in NY in 1976-77 leaps to mind. We weren't calling the military in, then. The risk of shooting some folks in the economic capital of our country is just as potentially damaging as shooting some politician (to be honest, probably more so).

Bush went way out of line by calling this a form of terrorism. The chances of this being a coordinated terrorist attack is minimal. It's far more likely that this is a nutcase who knows how to look through a scope and pull a trigger. However, now it's a national threat, and the military's being called in.

Calling it a form of terrorism makes it a hell of a lot easier to talk the sheeple into giving up basic freedoms. And that bothers me, under any circimsatnces.
 
HomeLAN said:
We've seen this shit before. The Son of Sam case in NY in 1976-77 leaps to mind. We weren't calling the military in, then. The risk of shooting some folks in the economic capital of our country is just as potentially damaging as shooting some politician (to be honest, probably more so).

Bush went way out of line by calling this a form of terrorism. The chances of this being a coordinated terrorist attack is minimal. It's far more likely that this is a nutcase who knows how to look through a scope and pull a trigger. However, now it's a national threat, and the military's being called in.

Calling it a form of terrorism makes it a hell of a lot easier to talk the sheeple into giving up basic freedoms. And that bothers me, under any circimsatnces.
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Bingo.
 
homelan we actully agree on something. i think bush is basically doing this so when they catch him itll make him look better plus hes got the power to do that. as i said i do want him caught but the quote i used should give an idea as to how i feel about him being called a terrorist. hes a sick bastard. he may or may not have ties to al queida(thats been mentioned here i dont know if anyone else heard this load of crap) but either way to make this a military state is just going to spread fear here. and were scared enough as it were. the son of sam and also i would have said the zodiac killer since that guy is still on the loose david berkowitz was caught and he was psychotic too. also think of how much time and effort went into those killers investigations. not that they didnt put forth the effort this time but theres less that they can get this guy on. disgusts me hes still around here.
 
Bubba said:
Voting does no good. Americans are too stoopid to know what their leaders are doing. They vote these people in and never bother to check to see what they are doing once in office. Most of the people that vote don't even have a clue what the candidate stands for. They just vote because their name sounds good or some other idiotic reason.

Look at Bill Clinton for example. He sold out the country when he signed NAFTA in. Everybody thinks he is a great guy, but he was busy getting blow jobs and selling out the Labor Sector in this country.


*i said stoopid not stupid
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Voting does a world of good...provided you do some real thinking before you pick your candidate. If everyone who voted did just that, we wouldn't have half the problems we have now. The public, for all it's worth, has become lazy. Generally expecting things to go right all the time without having to put forth any effort. Statements like you just made don't do anything to solve the problem, nor do they offer any other input for anyone else to try to solve anything. Place your effort into actually doing something instead of complaining, and you can make a difference...;)
 
Well the discussions are just as lively as always. I'm really glad i found this place finally!!!

Actually, as far as giving up civil liberties, I think some of the biggest steps were taken under kennedy durning the cuban missle crisis. I think the bulk of the executive orders that are the most frighteing came from kennedey out of fear that we would soon be in the middle of wwIII. Well, to my knowledge they were never later repealed, so I think its actually quite shocking how much the president is allowed to do in the case of a national emergency of some magnitude. I can't remember them right off had, sorry, I haven't really don't much reading on this type of material in a while, but if I have time I will try to locate these executive orders. If anyone else knows the ones I'm speaking of, feel free to post them. Well, anyway, I think this is far from a national emergency, so at least in my opinion, its an abuse of power to use ANYTHING so drastic as martial law, or something to that effect. I realize, that there are several executive orders that allow for this, and even for much worse, but they orginated out fo the kennedy administration. I think Billy may have passed a few more of them further enhancing the power of the presidency in a state of emergency, but I can't remember for sure right now. Sorry.

Well anyway. This snipper stuff really sucks, its its far from a national emergency. Maybe we should outlaw cars too, they killed more people in the last few weeks than this guy!!! That was random and unexpected too. Should we outlaw automobiles cuz they kill people, maybe institute marshall law to round them all up and destroy them. Come on, it makes headlines, but its not THAT serious. Not to say its not a terrible thing, but its just not THAT serious, by any measure!!!
 
i think the only reason he is being considered such a big threat is that he killed someone on federal property. but as i said this has gone on too long. see my posts to see why i want this bastard caught however im not willing to give up mine or anyone elses rights to do so. we should be able to catch him without giving up the constitution.
 
Coffee Bean said:
I don't think a sniper is either, it's just being used as an excuse to infringe upon our rights even further.
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Huh???? You see, we hold elections and elect our leaders. They aren't maniacs who gas the people...blah, blah, blah

Guess you are somewhat selective as to when to say what....hmmm...Aren't we all?
 
I had to amend my sig to a previous one(thanks mitch for making me remember it).

It is illegal for the United STates Miltary to assist law enforcement in the United States. They may not, nor may the CIA, act as civilian authority, unless, as unc pointed out, Habeas Corpus is suspended. The (fill in state here) National Guard may be elected to do so, at the specific request of the Governor of said state.Even then, there are some pretty strict guidelines.

The military is not assisting the DC, MD nor VA cops, They are allowing the use of the spy plane & allowing a civilian/police to contact the local authorities. If you see a US Marine, armed & ready for action, we'd better be under attack from another country or you need to call ther FBI & lodge a complaint.
 
It took a few but here is the act & some sidebars

Posse Comitatus Act
Source: G-OPL

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.
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20 Stat. L., 145

June 18, 1878

CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.

SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

18 U.S.C. 1385

Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of
Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to
execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

Editor's Note: The only exemption has to do with nuclear materials (18 U.S.C. 831 (e)
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I can't believe you posted that trash, Coffee. For a guy to write something like that has to let you know that he doesn't even understand the quote.

But liberty isn't deserved. Liberty is a fundamental, God given right.
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No kidding. The quote says that liberty will be taken away (or supressed)from you if you don't watch it.
 
1759? Weren't we planning to ask Britain for our sovereignty about then? I'm pretty sure Mr Franklin knew a lot about liberty & the lack thereof.
 
MitchSchaft said:
I can't believe you posted that trash, Coffee. For a guy to write something like that has to let you know that he doesn't even understand the quote.

But liberty isn't deserved. Liberty is a fundamental, God given right.
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No kidding. The quote says that liberty will be taken away (or supressed)from you if you don't watch it.
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I know...guy really pissed me off.
 
Ok unfortunately I had to look to the conspiracy theory websites to find the EOs in question, but here is what they claim. Also, here is a link to U of M's website on executive orders. You can look them up individually. Sorry, I didn't read through them this time. I read them many years ago, and was quite shocked. I don't think its like the conspiracy theorist would have you believe, but under the conditions at the time (cuban missle crisis) it may have been "necessary" I'm not sure I agree with that either, but it may have been. I don't know, I wasn't around then, and I can't imagine what might have happened in the even of a full-scale war with the soviet union. WEll, anyway, these EOs are still out there nevertheless, for use in the even of an "attack" on the US. I guess WTO would qualify as that! Maybe some of the spin on the sniper being a "terrorist" is legitimize the argument that that too is an "attack" on the US. Who knows. Well, here they are:

EXECUTIVE ORDERS

Executive Order No. 11051 Details responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

Executive Order No. 10995 Provides for the takeover of communication media.

Executive Order No. 10997 Provides for the takeover of all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels, and minerals.

Executive Order No. 10998 Provides for the takeover of food resources and farms.

Executive Order No. 10990 Provides for the takeover of all modes of transportation and control of highways, seaports, etc.

Executive Order No. 11000 Provides for mobilization of civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

Executive Order No. 11001 Provides for government takeover of health, education, and welfare functions.

Executive Order No. 11002 Designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

Executive Order No. 11003 Provides for the government takeover of airports and aircraft.

Executive Order No. 11004 Provides for the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and established new locations for populations.

Executive Order No. 11005 Provides for the government to take over railroads, inland waterways, public storage facilities.

Executive Order No. 11310 Published in the FEDERAL REGISTER, 11 October, 1966, grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industry support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

full text of these executive orders can be found here(don't know who did the last one, but it wasn't kennedy apparently):
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/jfkeo/exonum.htm
 
Don't forget the "right to bear arms" part which gives us the right to fucking shoot our government in the head if it tries to fuck the country up that way.

If you hate the United States so much, which I sense from all your posts, why don't you just move to Mexico?
 
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