If you don't believe in Heaven, do you believe in.....

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I just think it's hilarious how much idiotic support of religion we get from so called atheist Gonz. He is generally a wealth of dumbass commentary, and this is no exception. Nothing personal you know. Attacking the posts, as I am sure he is capable of better, he just does not seem to be willing.

:banghead:


Wow, such hatred of religion. Why all the hate of other peoples beliefs, perpetuating more hate ? How can attacking someones beliefs not be personal?

Don't you feel that a person has the right to have their own belief system, or should they be forced to adopt yours?

How tolerant of you.
 
Wow, such hatred of religion. Why all the hate of other peoples beliefs, perpetuating more hate ? How can attacking someones beliefs not be personal?

Don't you feel that a person has the right to have their own belief system, or should they be forced to adopt yours?

How tolerant of you.

Again you pay no attention to what is actually being said, don't read my posts in general, ass/u/me facts not in evidence. Place you spin on everything! I have no hatred for religion in general. Just for those who claim to have it but really have no idea. I also muse at the idea of being an atheist as I do not think that is possible. The fact is we are ALL (meaning humanity itself) are agnostic.

Dictionary.com said:
ag⋅nos⋅tic
  /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
Use agnostic in a Sentence
See web results for agnostic
See images of agnostic
–noun
1. a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.
–adjective
3. of or pertaining to agnostics or agnosticism.
4. asserting the uncertainty of all claims to knowledge.
Origin:
< Gk ágnōst(os), var. of ágnōtos not known, incapable of being known (a- a- 6 + gnōtós known, adj. deriv. from base of gignskein to know) + -ic, after gnostic; said to have been coined by T.H. Huxley in 1869

Related forms:
ag⋅nos⋅ti⋅cal⋅ly, adverb

Synonyms:
1. See atheist.

Alcoholics Anymous said:
The practical individual of today is a stickler for facts and results. Nevertheless, the twentieth century readily accepts theories of all kinds, provided they are firmly grounded in fact. We have numerous theories, for example, about electricity. Everybody believes them without a murmur of doubt. Why this ready acceptance? Simply because it is impossible to explain what we see, feel, direct, and use, without a reasonable assumption as a starting point.

Everybody nowadays, believes in scores of assumptions for which there is good evidence, but no perfect visual proof. And does not science demonstrate that visual proof is the weakest proof? It is being constantly revealed, as mankind studies the material world, that outward appearances are not inward reality at all. To illustrate:

The prosaic steel girder is a mass of electrons whirling around each other at incredible speed. These tiny bodies are governed by precise laws, and these laws hold true throughout the material world. Science tells us so. We have no reason to doubt it. When, however, the perfectly logical assumption is suggested that underneath the material world and life as we see it, there is an All Powerful, Guiding, Creative Intelligence, right there our perverse streak comes to the surface and we laboriously set out to convince ourselves it isn't so. We read wordy books and indulge in windy arguments, thinking we believe this universe needs no God to explain it. Were our contentions true, it would follow that life originated out of nothing, means nothing, and proceeds nowhere.

Instead of regarding ourselves as intelligent agents, spearheads of God's ever advancing Creation, we agnostics and atheists chose to believe that our human intelligence was the last word, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and end of all. Rather vain of us, wasn't it?

We, who have traveled this dubious path, beg you to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religion. We have learned that whatever the human frailties of various faiths may be, those faiths have given purpose and direction to millions. People of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about. Actually, we used to have no reasonable conception whatever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually-minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves.

That is what I believe! I recommend this chapter of the AA big book to anyone alcoholic or not....

Now do you think you could make any effort to know what the fuck you are talking about before you try to spin things how you like them?!?

:banghead:
 
The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous said:
Hence, we saw that reason isn't everything. Neither is reason, as most of us use it, entirely dependable, though it emanate from our best minds. What about people who proved that man could never fly?

Yet we had been seeing another kind of flight, a spiritual liberation from this world, people who rose above their problems. They said God made these things possible, and we only smiled. We had seen spiritual release, but liked to tell ourselves it wasn't true.

Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.

We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.

We can only clear the ground a bit. If our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourages you to search diligently within yourself, then, if you wish, you can join us on the Broad Highway. With this attitude you cannot fail. The consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you.

RM I don't think there are any of us who do not know these things deep down. It is wisdom that we are trained out of by many in this world as we grow up. But we are lying to ourselves and fooling ourselves to deny it. I am far from perfect and fall far short of my principles every day. The point is, I started trying to live to a higher calling.

I may seem angry on here, but it is really almost always directed at ideas I disagree with, almost never to people personally.

When I do get angry at another person, I try to say to myself, this is my brother and my equal though he may be spiritually sick. May he/she be blessed with all that I would want for myself.

I want clarity and enlightenment for myself but on a political forum I can only say what I believe and nobody KNOWS 100% they are right. On a personal day to day level I try my best to be a positive force in the lives I encounter. It certainly hasn't always been this way....

You might be surprised to know that jimpeel and I on a personal level have a real internet friendship and some mutual respect! You'd never know it by the way we posted here, but I genuinely like that guy on a personal level and write him occasionally. From what I remember I genuinely like you on a personal level, but in the forum of politics the gloves are off!
 
I just think it's hilarious how much idiotic support of religion we get from so called atheist Gonz.

Someone who knows you less well than myself might think you were saying that atheists MUST hate religion and MUST not tolerate others' beliefs.
 
Someone who knows you less well than myself might think you were saying that atheists MUST hate religion and MUST not tolerate others' beliefs.

Well it would be one thing if he was just supporting a moral code but as I see it it goes deeper and I think he'd be fine with a lot more legislated morality than most of us even if he wouln't admit it so long as his guy is at the reigns.

I just don't believe their are atheists, I don't believe it is humanly possible. Oh it is easy to convince one's self of ones own atheism. Still if nothing else we as humans are bound together by some force beyond our understanding, whether we fight it of not is our choice.

White Zombie said:
Look the supernatural isn't supposed to happen but it does happen!

Deny it all you want, some things can't be easily explained by any other theory....

By the same token, nobody living today can say with absolute certainty to know "god" or this life force or whatever it is. Thus we are all agnostic whether we want to believe so or not.

Just my opinion....
 
I just don't believe their are atheists, I don't believe it is humanly possible. Oh it is easy to convince one's self of ones own atheism. Still if nothing else we as humans are bound together by some force beyond our understanding, whether we fight it of not is our choice.

Deny it all you want, some things can't be easily explained by any other theory....

By the same token, nobody living today can say with absolute certainty to know "god" or this life force or whatever it is. Thus we are all agnostic whether we want to believe so or not.

Just my opinion....
There are atheists, just as there are people who don't believe in leprechauns, faeries, Santa, horoscopes, numerology, and ancient religions..like Odin or Isis or even sun-worshippers.

Humans are bound together by a few things..one of which is geography and another being common ancestry.

Science is trying to uncover all those unexplained things..which is more than religion can say. Given enough time and those 'some things' will evaporate. A nice example would be 'strokes', or elf-strokes if you will....when people would die for no apparent reason and must've been hit by the invisible arrows of fae folk when they strayed too close to a fae-home.

Calling everyone agnosts is fence-sitting and doesn't wash...it assumes that everyone considers the idea of a uber-powerful babysitter to be a viable one enough to even discuss it.
 
You send troops, or vote for a guy that will invade countries that are not threatening us.

That hasn't worked, got another idea?

Since my PC uses electricity produced from Hoover Dam, I'm feeling responsible for the 100 deaths from construction of said dam.
 
hard to say What worked, with the election system.
I have some doubt in it atm.

I'm not saying it's totally rigged or anything like that, but maybe some,
and/or mistakes.

How much I have no idea at all, so don't read too much into it.
 
There are atheists, just as there are people who don't believe in leprechauns, faeries, Santa, horoscopes, numerology, and ancient religions..like Odin or Isis or even sun-worshippers.

Humans are bound together by a few things..one of which is geography and another being common ancestry.

Science is trying to uncover all those unexplained things..which is more than religion can say. Given enough time and those 'some things' will evaporate. A nice example would be 'strokes', or elf-strokes if you will....when people would die for no apparent reason and must've been hit by the invisible arrows of fae folk when they strayed too close to a fae-home.

Calling everyone agnosts is fence-sitting and doesn't wash...it assumes that everyone considers the idea of a uber-powerful babysitter to be a viable one enough to even discuss it.

Absolutely an unbelievable argument in my opinion. Most alcoholics don't believe they are but it doesn't change the fact. How many people are positive God is Jesus and all others are evil? People want to believe these things but deep down withing them some part of them knows it not to be so. I never assume the existence of a "God" in the way that religion would try to define. I just know there is something and with the exception of honest to (god?) sociopaths I am pretty sure it is a part of our make up. I don't think you most likely read the big book quotes, but it explains my entire reason I do not believe there are atheists. You may think so but....

(In as brief of a nutshell as I can give you)

Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.

I believe literally that. This power whatever it is is not external to you, it is at your core. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I just think you are wrong, way wrong! In ways I can't begin to adequately explain I have seen too much evidence contrary to your point of view.
 
You're really oblivious to what goes on in the world huh?

Here ya go..
http://tinyurl.com/qrfkcb


I see what you mean and I agree 100%; if only we would have kept a Ronald Reagan stance on foreign policy.

lol, why didn't you go play human shield instead of sitting here like a lop.

I guess the lesson here is ---- Don't go lying and bragging about being a bad-ass in the sand with WMD's when 3000 of my fellow Americans just got killed.

I bet he'll never do that again.
 
I guess the lesson here is ---- Don't go lying and bragging about being a bad-ass in the sand with WMD's when 3000 of my fellow Americans just got killed.

I'm guessing the lesson was don't vote for some idiot who will mislead the country with psycho fear mongering into invading a country that isn't threatening us.

May we never do that again.
 
I'm guessing the lesson was don't vote for some idiot who will mislead the country with psycho fear mongering into socialist a country and threatening us with claims of racism.

May we never do that again.

Fixt that^ for you.

And your darned tootin' right! may we survive the next 3 years.
 
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