Is protesting still good?

[Squiggy]

Not the point Gonz...i come back after a few days away to find the right hanging another fucking tag on the left. You better all go enlist and serve. Bush is pointing towards Syria now. And if I read his lips properly, hes mumbling something about 'evil doers'... We can avenge dead israelis but not the dead Americans....sad...soo fucking sad.....

 

[outside looking in]

Not the point Gonz...i come back after a few days away to find the right hanging another fucking tag on the left.

Left economically, or left socially? Hitler was middle of the road economically (not extreme right or left), but was as far left socially as you can be.

 

[Jeslek]

The left just doesn't like to be reminded that all great fuckups in history is because of them... They have to somehow justify their left beliefs even though it all points to death, hunger, dictatorships, and the whole lot.

 

[Leslie]

gee whiz, I wish I could be smart just like you

 

[Q]

Not me. If I were "smart" like Jizlick, I'd fucking kill myself.

 

[Justintime]

I want one of those Jizlick all amercian action hero figures!

 

[Shadowfax]

this whole left-right thing has NOTHING to do with arguements anymore.
it's pathetic how so many adults start bitching towards eachother and can't even respect eachothers opinion.
that kind of behaviour takes away the fun of visiting otc completely.

 

[Leslie]

GI Jislick is theeeeeeeeeeeeere!

 

[Q]

My GI Jizlick action figure would be a dog toy. Those last about three minutes.

 

[Ardsgaine]

LL is such an easy target, isn't he? Any time you want to trounce the "other side," all you have to do is gang up on him.

this whole left-right thing has NOTHING to do with arguements anymore.

No, Squiggy made sure of that...

it's pathetic how so many adults start bitching towards eachother and can't even respect eachothers opinion.

I don't care whether people respect my opinion. All I care about is whether I get arguments in return for my arguments. That's the baseline of respect. When people drop below that, that's when I get offended.

that kind of behaviour takes away the fun of visiting otc completely.

It's par for the course in RW, and RW is only one forum on OTC.

 

[Jeslek]

I don't mind them taking their frustrations out on me. It just proves they can't argue with the right side. Countless of Ardsgaine's well-formed arguments are unanswered. So, by all means, take it out on me.

 

[Q]

LL is such an easy target, isn't he? Any time you want to trounce the "other side," all you have to do is gang up on him.

The truth is, the boy is not well liked. If you'll read some old threads, you find several people who share similar views asking him NOT to take their side. That shows me they have little or no respect for him either.

 

[Jeslek]

Oh. My. I think from now on I should take Squiggy's side. That would be fun.

 

[Squiggy]

Or just go on flaming as usual ....Plastic...too much plastic...

 

[Gonz]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 2.12
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -1.54

Libertarian Right


if you don't want to take the test, hit analysis, then view analysis...it gives a perspective...Hitler was VERY authoritarian right while Stalin was authoritarian VERY LEFT

 

[ris]

i would say that the more powerful the belief the more it becomes statements of ideology.

You use the word 'ideology' as if that's a bad thing...

i·de·ol·o·gy
n. pl. i·de·ol·o·gies
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

Where's the value judgment? I would think that the value of the ideology depends on its content.

from observance we see that worst elements of religion [as example] are formed when stretched to a point of absolute ideology.

What makes religion bad is that it's wrong. When taken to extremes, it's extremely wrong.

i never described ideologies as such as wrong, as you reference they are the a set of doctirnes or beliefs that form a basis. i would see the dogmatic following of ideology that, by the nature of being entrenched, returns to the safer ground of pure ideological basis.
in religion we can clearly see this as a retreat into what can be referred to as a hardline doctrine, such as an explicit interpretation of religious writing or teaching. if the ideological basis is not developed then it remains in reality abstract in nature and can easily become unconnected to complex real life scenarios.

i could never describe religion with a blanket wrong. i am an atheist and place that belief on a level ground with those with other beliefs. religion is a powerful, often life-affirming event. i would accept that the realisation of my atheism was as powerful an event to me as the finding of religion to others is.

i agree with you that when religion is taken to extremes it becomes more disconnected to reality, and has the potential to create the most awful things.

 

[Ardsgaine]

if you don't want to take the test

We did this a few months ago when I was on the RW. I think this was the test on which I couldn't even get past the first question because it was worded in such a way that there was no answer that I would agree with.

There is another test called the world's shortest political test, or something like that, invented by the libertarians. I scored 100% libertarian on it.

Tests like these offer one way to look at the political spectrum by classifying people according to their opinions on social issues vs economic issues. I don't see the need to complicate matters in that fashion. You're either against violating individual rights, or you're not. There are differences in degree, and there are qualitative differences based on which rights you want to violate, but in the end, tyranny is tyranny whether it's on social issues or economic. There's also a point at which the two run together. Is the prohibition on the drug trade an economic issue, or a social one? Is gay marriage an economic issue, or a social one? When the government taxes people to pay for child care, is that an economic issue or a social issue? They all have economic and social factors, so I don't see a clear cut line there.

 

[Gonz]

Use it as a common starting block then. It's hard to have this fight when we're all using different definitions. There has to be a baseline & this is a decent one.

 

[ris]

i find tests a useful starting point but ards makes a useful comment when he says he scored 100% libertarian on a libertarian set test. the point of view of the test makers will alter the way in which questions are set and the nature of the questions.

i did one a while back that was pretty uk based, probably the one in the earlier thread

 

[Ardsgaine]

if the ideological basis is not developed then it remains in reality abstract in nature and can easily become unconnected to complex real life scenarios.

Yes, I think that's the key. Ideologies that are developed as rationalistic abstractions with no connection to reality are a destructive force. They can pile up corpses all around them without questioning the results, as long as they are following the doctrine. Principles have to be derived from experience, and they must be based on human life as the standard of value. They have to be applied within the context of the real world. If an application of the principle in some context would yield an unacceptable result, a result that is destructive of human life, then one has to question whether the principle is being applied properly. In other words, one has to start from reality, and continuously go back to reality to check results.