Nature or nurture

Gato_Solo said:
That your behaviors define you, or something else?
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no just there was a whole bunch of shit jumbled up in there, that coulda used some housekeeping a little sooner. but it was good fodder for goofing off for a while. good thing you gave a "whoa" before i really started getting crazy, mixing plasma with dog plasma, pooping ouside the confines of porcelain, et cetera.

next let's chat about *agency v structure.* or better yet, let's leave it to them creepy sociologists.
 
2minkey said:
no just there was a whole bunch of shit jumbled up in there, that coulda used some housekeeping a little sooner. but it was good fodder for goofing off for a while. good thing you gave a "whoa" before i really started getting crazy, mixing plasma with dog plasma, pooping ouside the confines of porcelain, et cetera.

next let's chat about *agency v structure.* or better yet, let's leave it to them creepy sociologists.
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Always is. Thats part of the problem. You make a statement, defining what it is you believe, and others pounce on it, dissect it, and add stuff in that has little, or no bearing, upon your original statement as you believe it. Their counter is close enough to the subject to allow some debate, but, as the debating continues, the original meaning is lost as a whole...thus turning a black-and-white statement into a gray area.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Always is. Thats part of the problem. You make a statement, defining what it is you believe, and others pounce on it, dissect it, and add stuff in that has little, or no bearing, upon your original statement as you believe it. Their counter is close enough to the subject to allow some debate, but, as the debating continues, the original meaning is lost as a whole...thus turning a black-and-white statement into a gray area.
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Thus the board title "Off Topic Central". :dizzy:
 
http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?BG/317descr

Section 002 — How to be Gay: Male Homosexuality and Initiation.

Credits: (3; 2 in the half-term).

Instructor(s): David M Halperin ([email protected])

Course Description:

Just because you happen to be a gay man doesn't mean that you don't have to learn how to become one. Gay men do some of that learning on their own, but often we learn how to be gay from others, either because we look to them for instruction or because they simply tell us what they think we need to know, whether we ask for their advice or not.

This course will examine the general topic of the role that initiation plays in the formation of gay male identity. We will approach it from three angles: (1) as a sub-cultural practice — subtle, complex, and difficult to theorize — which a small but significant body of work in queer studies has begun to explore; (2) as a theme in gay male writing; and (3) as a class project, since the course itself will constitute an experiment in the very process of initiation that it hopes to understand.

In particular, we will examine a number of cultural artifacts and activities that seem to play a prominent role in learning how to be gay: Hollywood movies, grand opera, Broadway musicals, and other works of classical and popular music, as well as camp, diva-worship, drag, muscle culture, taste, style, and political activism. Are there a number of classically 'gay' works such that, despite changing tastes and generations, all gay men, of whatever class, race, or ethnicity, need to know them, in order to be gay? What is there about gay identity that explains the gay appropriation of these works? What do we learn about gay male identity by asking not who gay men are but what it is that gay men do or like? One aim of exploring these questions is to approach gay identity from the perspective of social practices and cultural identifications rather than from the perspective of gay sexuality itself. What can such an approach tell us about the sentimental, affective, or subjective dimensions of gay identity, including gay sexuality, that an exclusive focus on gay sexuality cannot?

At the core of gay experience there is not only identification but disidentification. Almost as soon as I learn how to be gay, or perhaps even before, I also learn how not to be gay. I say to myself, 'Well, I may be gay, but at least I'm not like that!' Rather than attempting to promote one version of gay identity at the expense of others, this course will investigate the stakes in gay identifications and disidentifications, seeking ultimately to create the basis for a wider acceptance of the plurality of ways in which people determine how to be gay.

Additional note. This course is not a basic introduction to gay male culture, but an exploration of certain issues arising from it. It assumes some background knowledge. Students wishing to inform themselves about gay men and gay culture in a preliminary way should enroll in an introductory course in lesbian/gay studies.
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If you're as disgusted as I am that a deviant sexual orientation now warrants credit classes, feel free to ass rape the e-mail provided.
 
Professur said:
http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?BG/317descr



If you're as disgusted as I am that a deviant sexual orientation now warrants credit classes, feel free to ass rape the e-mail provided.
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Looks like a good place for birds of a feather. Takes care of that whole gay bar dating thing as all you have to do is to sign up and be in a place that is filled with gay men chomping at the bit to learn new things about being gay.
 
How to be what you are, naturally. Or is it, how to become what we claim to be naturally.
 
jimpeel said:
Looks like a good place for birds of a feather. Takes care of that whole gay bar dating thing as all you have to do is to sign up and be in a place that is filled with gay men chomping at the bit to learn new things about being gay.
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i bet that's fascinating, heh?
 
BeardofPants said:
I don't see how it's any different from any other sociology/anthropology class. :shrug:
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i do.

it's politicized "identity instruction" and i wonder if it's appropriate to use public tax dollars for that kind of instruction - of any stripe. i'd object in a similar way if they were teaching a class on "how to be a good christian."

gay studies, black studies, religious studies, et cetera are all areas of study, not "how to" courses. sure, you get lots of identity-seekers in those courses, but if you excluded based on that... well, about four people a year would graduate with degrees.
 
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