Obama's Energy Answer

[spike]

To follow the upcoming crop if ideas, we will suffer. Ask Spain.

What about Spain is related to us suffering?

There hasn't been a new refinery in nearly 30 years. NIMBY groups & eco-terrorist clubs tie it up in court, making it too costly.

"There's also no doubt that current gas prices are making oil companies and refiners gallons of money. So some speculate that they don't want to build more refineries because that would increase supply and depress prices. That would cost them money.

"They would be in effect be depressing prices and margins and hurting themselves," said Rao.

Rao said it's simple if someone could make money on a new refinery, they'd build it.

"I wouldn't be betting on a new refinery showing up anytime soon because all the economic incentives are lined up against building a new refinery," he said.

Chevron said ethanol is another reason it won't build a new refinery. Leaders there said that bio-fuels will lower demand for gasoline. "

As for drilling on currently leased land - if there was oil readily available, they'd be drilling.

Do you have any proof of this?

We agree there. (although I prefer alternative to renewable) However, we haver an oil based power infrastructure. Let us use what we have & move into other areas as they becoem available.

Available now.

It's not the job of corporations or government to be our mommy. Responsibility comes from the indivdual. Choices made & money spent will ultimately benefit the consumer (see capitalism)

Actually responsibility is something you should expect from the government and corporations. Choices made and money spent don't always benefit the consumer.

 

[Gonz]

Available now.

Fine...which alternate are you using?

Actually responsibility is something you should expect from the government and corporations.

Why?

 

[MrBishop]

YEA!!! DAMNIT!!!! We should all suffer equally.

There is no shortage of energy. The preceived shortage is caused by beauracratic hurdles. More power plants & more refineries (plus drilling) allows us our supply of cheap energy in abundant quantities.

Conserving is for the pocketbook...not a bad plan but oone that needs to be personal.

Not really...the oil you'd be drilling would be priced alongside all other oil available. Increased supply might dip the price for a bit, but the developing nations would just sop up the new/cheaper oil faster BECAUSE it's cheaper... the same can be said for regular consumers. Oh look...the price of gas is down...let's buy more! We can take that road trip we were going to cancel. Take the 4x4 off of the for sale listing.

Adding supply won't drop the price. If you want to drop the price...decrease demand. Hence the reasoning behind conserving energy (inflating tires, tune-ups etc..).

Waste less oil for the same usage = decreased demand. A more permanent way to decrease prices AND get off of the oil-teat.

 

[Professur]

Y'know what I'd like to see one day? A discussion on energy that didn't dissolve in bi-partisan back biting.

I'm best classed as a progressive conservative. I'm for change, when there's a good reason for it. I'm also fairly mechanically inclined. At my house, I use the lights that make sense where I need them. I've got CFL in some places, regular incandescent, halogen, and even a few regular florescent tubes dependent on location. Y'know what? I turn them all off when there's noone in the room and many of my lamps are Tri-light setups. If I don't need 150 watts, I turn it down to 50. Likewise, I have dimmers about to reduce consumption.
No matter what anyone says, I can easily tell the difference between CFL and incandescent bulbs output. I've tried reading under CFL ... and it's unpleasant. Likewise under regular tubes, I can see the flicker in my peripheral vision and it gives me a headache in short order. I've stocked up on old fashioned bulbs. When everyone and his brother needs glasses because of those CFL, my kids will still be able to see.


Automotive-wise, yeah, every car owner should get his tires checked (or ... OMIGAWD check them himself??) at least once a week. Intelligent people don't need to be told this. They do it at the same time they check all the fluids under the hood. If this is news to you, you really need to look into buying a bus pass. You'll save those of us who do a lot of time and aggravation from getting stuck in traffic caused when you break down during rush hour. Once a year, change the air filter, run an intake cleaner down to clean out the throttle body, use a great synthetic oil (no dinos died to produce this product) in the tranny and differential as well as the engine. (if you can get access to aircraft lubricants, you discover that ... they never change the oil in planes. Just the filters ... the full synthetic oil's good forever.) Don't run winter tires when it's 90F out ...


but all of that costs more, and most folk aren't willing to put out more hard earned cash for it. 'Cept they already are, with every tankfull paid. That's because they're stupid. Notice a trend?

 

[MrBishop]

to be more specific..it costs more in the short run but saves in the long run - unfortunately, people are not only lazy but short-sighted.

 

[Cerise]

Senator Obama also announced an "income redistribution" plan to seize oil company profits and distribute them to "working class" families.

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an “Emergency Economic Plan” that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls “windfall profits from Big Oil.” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12237.html

Why does Barry feel it be better to take oil company profits and hand checks to Americans than for this country to become self-reliant?

 

[spike]

Why does Barry feel it be better to take oil company profits and hand checks to Americans than for this country to become self-reliant?

Simple, because he never said he feels that way. You just made that up.

Do you suddenly have something against stimulus checks now?

 

[Cerise]

Simple, because he never said he feels that way. You just made that up.

Obama wants to see Americans be dependent on the government instead of becoming independent of foreign oil. He wants people to accept and adapt to the new conditions. Is that so hard to figure out?

CNBC's John Harwood: So could the (high) oil prices help us?

Barack Obama: I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make the adjustment, first of all by putting more money in their pockets, but also by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more rapidly, particularly U.S. automakers...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gehaf7_TBAs

Do you suddenly have something against stimulus checks now?

Why should the oil companies be forced to cut you a check?

 

[Professur]

Simple, because he never said he feels that way. You just made that up.

Do you suddenly have something against stimulus checks now?

I always have something against someone take something without asking me, and then expecting gratitude for giving it back.

 

[spike]

Obama wants to see Americans be dependent on the government instead of becoming independent of foreign oil.

Actually becoming independent of foreign oil is a big part of his policy.

Why should the oil companies be forced to cut you a check?

The article doesn't mention oil companies cutting checks. It says "funded in part" and then doesn't mention how the "part" would be funded.

 

[spike]

Fine...which alternate are you using?

PG&E is using a decent amount of wind, solar, geothermal, etc now. We need to push for more or switch to community choice energy.

Why?

Responsibility is a good thing. If the government has irresponsible policies they can really make a mess of things. Imagine zoning with no thought put into it.

 

[2minkey]

Y'know what I'd like to see one day? A discussion on energy that didn't dissolve in bi-partisan back biting.

sorry. not possible. it's been shown many time in this thread alone that many folks here are utterly incapable of even the most momentary separation from their respective ideological positions.

1. obama is bad bad bad. he's gonna ruin everything. he wants us all to depend on mommy government.

2. obama is our savior. he's gonna restore hope and lead us away from the evils perpetrated by bush, his cronies, and big (oil) companies.

take your pick. i call one approach "nimrod" and the other one "bonehead." see if you can guess which is which.

but, then, this thread started as an attack on obama, so what the fuck could anyone expect?

p.s. yeah spike, PG+E is great!

 

[Cerise]

but, then, this thread started as an attack on obama, so what the fuck could anyone expect?

*ahem*

 

[Gonz]

Actually becoming independent of foreign oil is a big part of his policy.

So then, it's time to drill on our soil.

Bish, an increase in supply will help. More of something always lowers the price.

PG&E is using a decent amount of wind, solar, geothermal, etc now. We need to push for more or switch to community choice energy.

Decent amount? That means alternative are not readily available.

If the government has irresponsible policies they can really make a mess of things.

You're almost there.

 

[spike]

p.s. yeah spike, PG+E is great!

Far from it, I know. But in this regard they do lead pretty much every other utility company in the US....but that's not saying much really.

 

[spike]

So then, it's time to drill on our soil.

Time to rapidly move away from oil.

Decent amount? That means alternative are not readily available.

No it means the alternatives need to be pursued more aggressively.

You're almost there.

I'm there already. Governments and corporations should have responsible policies. I don't know why you would encourage anything less.

 

[MrBishop]

So then, it's time to drill on our soil.

Bish, an increase in supply will help. More of something always lowers the price.

Yes...temporarily. But demand will catch up to your increased supply. Take the Oil Sands in Alberta.

A recent recalculation has revealed that the amount of oil buried underneath the ground in Northern Alberta was not millions of barrels - but trillions. Alberta's internationally recognised reserves are now put at 175 billion barrels of crude. Only Saudi Arabia has bigger reserves.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4649580.stm

They're also finding more oil in Saskatchewan, which may very well put Canada as the #1 oil-producer on the face of the Earth.

Seen the price of oil drop any?...a bit, but it's bouncing back. Think a 10 year plan to drill offshore will drop the prices now? You're dreaming.

Reduce demand...because reducing the price of oil will be like calling out "Happy Hour" at a bar. Cheap oil will mean more people clamouring for it. Demand goes up and before you know it...your prices are back up to where they were BUT you've got more people at the teat.

OPEC nations are no fools.

 

[2minkey]

assholes, but not fools.

 

[tonksy]

So Minkey...I love you and stuff but have you been on a cycle of prednisone for the passed 2 weeks or so? Maybe you aren't sleeping enough? Quit coffee? You seem crankier.

 

[Professur]

Time to rapidly move away from oil.

I disagree. We need to move away from oil, it's true ... but carefully, with eyes wide open. Not blindly flailing in the dark, like with ethanol. That's the biggest cluster fuck to date. Carefully, with an open book with regards to the consequences. Public declaration of operating logs, cost/profit, and waste disposal. Nuke power looks great on paper ... only water vapour as an output ... until you consider the storage of spent fuel rods for the next 10,000 years. (that's what I mentioned before. Put some money into finding ways to recycle those instead of just storing them for then next 5000 generations). Document the bird strikes of windfarms, the electrocutions of transformer stations, the reduction in CO2 consumption by plants in areas covered by solar farms .....


My biggest gripe about science today is their total failure to accept that each development, discovery, .. unit of science is only one tiny cog in the machinery of nature.