Officer kills man who beat child to death

2minkey said:
we can't all be steely men of action. especially in depends and dentures.
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I wasn't trying to judge the people who were there.
Gato_Solo said:
I kinda lean towards the 'conditioning' argument. We, as a society, have been, and are being, conditioned towards certain responses to certain stimuli...ie "Violence is wrong regardless of circumstances" and "when confronted with an 'unsafe' action, give the perpetrator what they want and expect the authorities to straighten out the situation". Good in some ways, but, in this situation, extremely detrimental to the victim. :shrug:
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Probably a lot of truth to that.
 
mostly here i'm reacting to the kind of fantasy of heroic violence that typically graces the front matter of american rifleman. "granny blasts would-be intruder on front porch with old coach gun."

so apparently there was an elderly guy and gal on the scene. and apparently there were attempts to pull the guy off the kid before the pilot/cop guy put a round in the dude's forehead.

one could reasonably expect that the previous attemptees, realizing that the kid was already gone, and that the dude was nutty as a shithouse rat, became discouraged at some point. one could also expect that the officer, coming late(r) to the scene and being seaparated by a fence, may not have realized the kid was kaput. not that that means he shouldn't have shot the fucker. and nice shot placement, by the way.

anyway, for those of you second guessing and tough talking: you weren't there. put a cork in it. or all your macho heroes - sylvester stallone, john wayne, ollie north, rock hudson, errol flynn, even heston - will come to you in a dream and do that bukakke (sp?) thing on you.

though one of you may like that....
 
I certainly wouldn't expect an elderly couple to get all violent on the guy and I would also like to state (FTR) that I initially did not know the bystanders were an elderly couple who were probably afraid of the guy turning on them. However, something needed to be done. Throw a rock? Scream bloody murder? Something.

And, again FTR, I would not enjoy the scene Minkey has set...not with those individuals at any rate.
 
2minkey said:
mostly here i'm reacting to the kind of fantasy of heroic violence that typically graces the front matter of american rifleman. "granny blasts would-be intruder on front porch with old coach gun."

so apparently there was an elderly guy and gal on the scene. and apparently there were attempts to pull the guy off the kid before the pilot/cop guy put a round in the dude's forehead.

one could reasonably expect that the previous attemptees, realizing that the kid was already gone, and that the dude was nutty as a shithouse rat, became discouraged at some point. one could also expect that the officer, coming late(r) to the scene and being seaparated by a fence, may not have realized the kid was kaput. not that that means he shouldn't have shot the fucker. and nice shot placement, by the way.

Oh, yeah. If you're unsure of the spelling, you can always look it up in google. ;)

anyway, for those of you second guessing and tough talking: you weren't there. put a cork in it. or all your macho heroes - sylvester stallone, john wayne, ollie north, rock hudson, errol flynn, even heston - will come to you in a dream and do that bukakke (sp?) thing on you.

though one of you may like that....
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Like I said. Conditioning. We are pretty much conditioned to not 'get involved'. Call it SEP (Somebody Elses Problem) if you like, but this 'phenomenon' was also seen, recently, in that hit and run in Connecticut. We have become fearful of helping anyone because of being accused of vigilanteism, and the fact that the person we may help could be portrayed as being deserving of their plight. NOTE...I'm not talking about the child in this instance.

Oh, yeah. If you're unsure of the spelling, you can always look it up on Google...;)
 
Gato_Solo said:
Like I said. Conditioning. We are pretty much conditioned to not 'get involved'. Call it SEP (Somebody Elses Problem) if you like, but this 'phenomenon' was also seen, recently, in that hit and run in Connecticut. We have become fearful of helping anyone because of being accused of vigilanteism, and the fact that the person we may help could be portrayed as being deserving of their plight. NOTE...I'm not talking about the child in this instance.

Oh, yeah. If you're unsure of the spelling, you can always look it up on Google...;)
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A friend once showed up for something with a black eye and a fat lip. When asked what happened he said, "I was defending the honor of a girl without any." :lol:

Bukkake was not mentioned. ;)
 
1. people did get involved.

2. americans are conditioned against violence? are you kidding? americans excel at violence. teddy roosevelt practically wrote a fucking thesis on it, swollen with pride at our killin' skills.
 
2minkey said:
1. people did get involved.

2. americans are conditioned against violence? are you kidding? americans excel at violence. teddy roosevelt practically wrote a fucking thesis on it, swollen with pride at our killin' skills.
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Where are you Kitty Genovese?
 
2minkey said:
americans are conditioned against violence? are you kidding? americans excel at violence. teddy roosevelt practically wrote a fucking thesis on it, swollen with pride at our killin' skills.
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Shut up or I'm gonna beat the shit out of you then beat you for shittin'. :eyemouth:
 
2minkey said:
1. people did get involved.

2. americans are conditioned against violence? are you kidding? americans excel at violence. teddy roosevelt practically wrote a fucking thesis on it, swollen with pride at our killin' skills.
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1. People did not get involved to the point of personal risk.

2. Never said that. Please re-read what I wrote. We are being conditioned to not respond/aid others.
 
Gato_Solo said:
2. Never said that. Please re-read what I wrote. We are being conditioned to not respond/aid others.
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hmm.... "We, as a society, have been, and are being, conditioned towards certain responses to certain stimuli...ie "Violence is wrong regardless of circumstances"


sorry dude, but i'm not buying what pop psychology has to offer. this "social conditioning" crap is a write-off explanation, a cop-out, and in many cases a "blame something/someone else"

:eyebrow:

it's not little joey's fault he shot up the school. it's all that video game violence, gang-bangers on the TV, a couple copies of soldier of fortune magazine, and his father's temper and switch that made him what he is.

if only we had nurtured him!
 
2minkey said:
hmm.... "We, as a society, have been, and are being, conditioned towards certain responses to certain stimuli...ie "Violence is wrong regardless of circumstances"


sorry dude, but i'm not buying what pop psychology has to offer. this "social conditioning" crap is a write-off explanation, a cop-out, and in many cases a "blame something/someone else"

:eyebrow:

it's not little joey's fault he shot up the school. it's all that video game violence, gang-bangers on the TV, a couple copies of soldier of fortune magazine, and his father's temper and switch that made him what he is.

if only we had nurtured him!
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What Gato is saying is that we are being conditioned to believe that violence, even violence in the defense of others, is wrong unless the violence is tendered by the authorities.

Pearl Mississippi: Luke Woodham comes to school with a rifle and kills and wounds several students. Vice Principal Joel Myrick runs to his truck and retrieves a handgun and stops Woodham with only the threat of violence. People try to get Myrick fired because, as one person put it, "What kind of a man would pull a gun on one of his students?"

After 9/11 one of the talking heads in a discussion with some anti-firearm hack was exploring the scenario on what the result might have been had someone on one of the planes been armed. The response from the anti-firearms hack? "Having a firearm on the plane would only have escalated the violence."

Escalation of violence is only supposed to be acceptable when it is performed by someone in authority. We are being conditioned to accept waiting for armed hired guns to arrive rather than to use our own means of defense. Just look at the number of people who have been arrested and indicted by overzealous prosecutors for defending their homes.

More and more states are passing "Castle Doctrine" laws which repeal the preceding laws which declare that you have a duty to retreat from your own home if someone comes into your home to do violence against you or your family. Under the preceding laws, you are expected to call the lawful authority and wait for them to arrive.

Kids in school are expected to take whatever the bullies dish out because they are not allowed to escalate the violence by taking on the bullies. They fester in their daily acceptance until it boils over into the latest Columbine.

So, yes, we ARE being conditioned that violence at any level, even in defense of oneself, is wrong.
 
s_protection.jpg


http://www.a-human-right.com/s_protection.jpg

http://www.a-human-right.com/introduction.html
 
yes, the state has a "monopoly on legitimate violence" in a formal sense but you're not about to convince me of the rest of your blather.

"More and more states are passing "Castle Doctrine" laws which repeal the preceding laws which declare that you have a duty to retreat from your own home if someone comes into your home to do violence against you or your family. Under the preceding laws, you are expected to call the lawful authority and wait for them to arrive."

you realize this says that things are getting "better" for one's own personal use of violence, right? now you can shoot that fucker in the face, in your living room, without having to scamper back to the laundry room and cower. so, what's being conditioned, again?

and we're right back into the front matter of american rifleman with the personal defense fantasies. yep.

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