Officials Say U.S. Wiretaps Exceeded Law

Cerise said:
:rolleyes:

I'm sure you can provide a series of links to back up your claim that the Booooosh! administration was listening in on everyone's conversations? Prove that he did.

Until you can find that, rest assured that GWB had your best interests in mind.

:shrug:

Did you know that Barky supported legislation granting legal immunity to the telecoms?

Oh, the humanity.

I can't hear your outrage.
Click to expand...
OK... I'm going to let you think about what you just posted here. :rolleyes: You just supported my side of the debate.
Hint: legislation granting legal immunity to the telecom companies... for wire tapping... during the Bush administration.

/Valkyrie waits for the light bulb to blink on over Cerise's head.
 
valkyrie said:
OK... I'm going to let you think about what you just posted here. :rolleyes: You just supported my side of the debate.
Hint: legislation granting legal immunity to the telecom companies... for wire tapping... during the Bush administration.

/Valkyrie waits for the light bulb to blink on over Cerise's head.
Click to expand...


:rolleyes:



Computer programs sifting through phone and email records looking for patterns related to terrorist names and numbers. The results are handed over to people to investigate. I fail to see your problem with it.

In a major August 2008 decision released yesterday in redacted form, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, the FISA appellate panel, affirmed the government's Constitutional authority to collect national-security intelligence without judicial approval.

But the Constitution bans only "unreasonable" search and seizure, not all searches and seizures, and the Fourth Amendment allows for exceptions such as those under a President's Article II war powers.

For all the political hysteria and media dishonesty about George W. Bush "spying on Americans," this fight was never about anything other than staging an ideological raid on the President's war powers.
Click to expand...

When you call the interception of communications to and from suspected alQaeda agents abroad "illegal wiretapping" and suggesting that it was used "on everyone" in this country it is just an outright lie.


Unless, of course, you found some information that proves your contention that the Bush administration used it for other than the prosecution of the GWoT.

Otherwise, all you have is unsubstantiated speculation based in Boooooosh! Derangement Syndrome.


:shrug:
 
Why did you post a reader's opinion? That doesn't "vindicate" anyone.

I see you didn't make the connection in what you posted. I'll help you a bit more...
One more time... Hint: legislation granting legal immunity to the telecom companies... for wire tapping... during the Bush administration.

Telecom companies requiring legal immunity for wire tapping during the Bush administration.

What did they need immunity for? Wire tapping? When? During the Bush administration....

Come on... you can make the connection.... :)
 
valkyrie said:
Why did you post a reader's opinion? That doesn't "vindicate" anyone.
Click to expand...

The answer is in that first paragraph. :shrug:

If you'd rather not read and accept the facts in opinion form, the story from the Washington Post is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/15/AR2009011502311.html?hpid=topnews

If you'd rather not read and accepts the facts in news form, here is the actual court decision: http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/07a0253p-06.pdf

If you'd rather not read and accept the actual court decision, then you're in denial.


To summarize: Bush was within his rights.

One more time... Hint: legislation granting legal immunity to the telecom companies... for wire tapping... during the Bush administration.

What did they need immunity for? Wire tapping? When? During the Bush administration....
Click to expand...


The immunity was granted to encourage the telecoms who were otherwise hesitant to cooperate with the government's request to turn over information to do so without fear of having to defend themselves against unfounded, time-consuming and finance-consuming lawsuits filed by foaming-at-the-mouth-lefties and their ACLU lawyers who were quick to claim their rights were violated by the FISA Act.


Your BDS-borne conspiracy theories have no basis in fact. :shrug:
 
Hey Cerise, you ever going to answer the question of why on earth you thought Bush was just wiretapping known terrorists?

Why do you avoid these simple questions so often?
 
Cerise said:
Where is the outrage over 0bama's domestic spying program?

No fight. No disapproval. No indignation. :shrug:


At least Bush was wiretapping known terrorists. I wonder who 0bama is wiretapping????

Recent headlines read:

NSA Exceeds Legal Limits In Eavesdropping Program


U.S. phone intercepts go beyond legal limits: report


NSA Found Improperly Spying on Americans
Click to expand...
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
If you're saying that Bush was well within his rights as President to conduct these wire-taps..then why do you have an issue for the current President in doing the same?
 
spike said:
Hey Cerise, you ever going to answer the question of why on earth you thought Bush was just wiretapping known terrorists?

Why do you avoid these simple questions so often?
Click to expand...

I'll try it again:

Because he said he was.

The burden of proof is always on the accuser, and I don't believe there has been any evidence to prove to that the Booooosh! administration was wiretapping people other than terrorists.

Has there?
 
MrBishop said:
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.
If you're saying that Bush was well within his rights as President to conduct these wire-taps..then why do you have an issue for the current President in doing the same?
Click to expand...


It wasn't only me, the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review said he was within his rights, and he was only surveilling known terrorists.

Recently it has been determined that legal limits were exceeded that did not comply with laws and court orders:

The New York Times on Wednesday reported on its Web site that the program intercepted private email messages and phone calls of Americans.
Click to expand...


The Times said "congressional investigators say they hope to determine if any violations of Americans' privacy occurred."

"It is not clear to what extent the agency may have actively listened in on conversations or read e-mails of Americans without proper court authority, rather than simply obtain access to them," it added.
Click to expand...
 
Cerise said:
I'll try it again:

Because he said he was.
Click to expand...

Where did he say that?

The burden of proof is always on the accuser, and I don't believe there has been any evidence to prove to that the Booooosh! administration was wiretapping people other than terrorists.

Has there?
Click to expand...

If you don't believe there has been any evidence than you must be just sticking your head in the sand.



The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.
Click to expand...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

President Bush signed a secret order in 2002 authorizing the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on U.S. citizens and foreign nationals in the United States, despite previous legal prohibitions against such domestic spying, sources with knowledge of the program said last night.

The super-secretive NSA, which has generally been barred from domestic spying except in narrow circumstances involving foreign nationals, has monitored the e-mail, telephone calls and other communications of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people under the program, the New York Times disclosed last night.
Click to expand...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/16/AR2005121600021.html

Despite pledges by President George W. Bush and American intelligence officials to the contrary, hundreds of US citizens overseas have been eavesdropped on as they called friends and family back home, according to two former military intercept operators who worked at the giant National Security Agency (NSA) center in Fort Gordon, Georgia.
Brian Ross reveals what the government heard on wiretaps.

The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Jay Rockefeller (D-WV), called the allegations "extremely disturbing" and said the committee has begun its own examination.

"We have requested all relevant information from the Bush Administration," Rockefeller said Thursday. "The Committee will take whatever action is necessary."

(CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE NIGHTLINE STORY)

"These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones," said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA's Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003.

Kinne described the contents of the calls as "personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism."
Click to expand...

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5987804&page=1

Oops.
 
The aim of the program was to rapidly monitor the phone calls and other communications of people in the United States believed to have contact with suspected associates of al Qaeda and other terrorist groups overseas....
Click to expand...


The FISA court decided Bush was within his rights:


If you'd rather not read and accept the facts in opinion form, the story from the Washington Post is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/15/AR2009011502311.html?hpid=topnews

If you'd rather not read and accepts the facts in news form, here is the actual court decision: http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/07a0253p-06.pdf

If you'd rather not read and accept the actual court decision, then you're in denial.
Click to expand...
 
So are you ready to admit you were wrong when you said Bush was just wiretapping known terrorists yet?


"The FISA court decided Bush was within his rights:"

A federal judge ruled yesterday that the National Security Agency’s program to wiretap the international communications of some Americans without a court warrant violated the Constitution, and she ordered it shut down.

The ruling was the first judicial assessment of the Bush administration’s arguments in defense of the surveillance program,
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/washington/18nsa.html
 
spike said:
So are you ready to admit you were wrong when you said Bush was just wiretapping known terrorists yet?


"The FISA court decided Bush was within his rights:"



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/washington/18nsa.html
Click to expand...

Do timelines mean anything at all to you; or did you simply think no one would notice that you were posting old news of no significance or validity?

Your link was to a NYT article August 18, 2006 on a decision handed down by a federal judge in Michigan.

A federal judge ruled yesterday that the National Security Agency’s program to wiretap the international communications of some Americans without a court warrant violated the Constitution, and she ordered it shut down.

...

In a sweeping decision that drew on history, the constitutional separation of powers and the Bill of Rights, Judge Anna Diggs Taylor of United States District Court in Detroit rejected almost every administration argument.
Click to expand...

Cerise's link was to the appeal July 6, 2007 which overturned and negated that decision you posted.

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE SIXTH CIRCUIT

Argued: January 31, 2007
Decided and Filed: July 6, 2007

OPINION
_________________
ALICE M. BATCHELDER, Circuit Judge. The United States National Security Agency

(“NSA”) appeals from the decision of the District Court for the Eastern District of
Michigan that granted summary judgment against the NSA and imposed
a permanent injunction. The plaintiffs are a collection of associations
and individuals led by the American Civil Liberties Union, and they
cross-appeal. Because we cannot find that any of the plaintiffs
have standing for any of their claims, we must vacate the district
court’s order and remand for dismissal of the entire action.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top