ON guns. Intresting link/survey included
- Thread starter AnomalousEntity
- Start date
AnomalousEntity
New Member
I hate to see this but you guys have your heads stuck up your asses its not even funny.
PS,
A gun is not meant to Kill.
Its meant to stop someone from attacking you or hurting you.
Thats the reason why the police carry them, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the DEA, coast guard, immigration, sherriff, etc etc.
The folks ARE NO MORE SKILLED THAN MOST PRIVATE CITIZENS.
When you look at it that way, your entire argument built upon the premise that it "has no other function but to kill" completely collapses upon itself.
Bish, if you think helping someone else form a violent crime is a BAD THING.
Well Im sorry but your and idiot.
Paul:
No one ever said that a gun was a garuntee for every situation (in fact I already said it wasnt). But it is better to have a fighting chance than no chance at all.
PS,
A gun is not meant to Kill.
Its meant to stop someone from attacking you or hurting you.
Thats the reason why the police carry them, the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the DEA, coast guard, immigration, sherriff, etc etc.
The folks ARE NO MORE SKILLED THAN MOST PRIVATE CITIZENS.
When you look at it that way, your entire argument built upon the premise that it "has no other function but to kill" completely collapses upon itself.
Bish, if you think helping someone else form a violent crime is a BAD THING.
Well Im sorry but your and idiot.
Paul:
No one ever said that a gun was a garuntee for every situation (in fact I already said it wasnt). But it is better to have a fighting chance than no chance at all.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
a fighting chance?
is that the peace of mind it really gives you?
A fighting chance against what?
I see it as nothing but a crutch that will get you killed, if someone has a gun in your face, it's useless.
If someone is attacking someone else, you can't shoot, you might hit the other person.
the only other senario i see is the end of resivoir dogs
The NRA leads people to beleive that guns lower crime, I don't see how, they might lower petty theft, but voilent crimes stay the same.
is that the peace of mind it really gives you?
A fighting chance against what?
I see it as nothing but a crutch that will get you killed, if someone has a gun in your face, it's useless.
If someone is attacking someone else, you can't shoot, you might hit the other person.
the only other senario i see is the end of resivoir dogs
The NRA leads people to beleive that guns lower crime, I don't see how, they might lower petty theft, but voilent crimes stay the same.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
A gun is not meant to kill? It's meant to be a deterrant? Why bother keeping bullets in the thing then? I'm assuming that you keep it/them loaded, right? Why? The guy that you're trying to deter won't know, right?AnomalousEntity said:
Never said anything about not helping people from out of violent situations...just don't know how your gun helps the situation. IMHO, it only makes the situation that much MORE violent!
BTW.
idiot n : a person of subnormal intelligence [syn: imbecile, cretin, moron, changeling, half-wit, retard]
My IQ is 110/127/136 averaged at about 127. I am not below average intelligence, therfore, not an idiot
You...on the otherhand...are an ignoranus. Both stupid AND an asshole.
Unfortunatly, you are also trigger-happy
trigger-happy adj 1: irresponsible in the use of firearms 2: marked by extreme intensity of emotions or convictions; inclined to react violently; fervid; "fierce loyalty"; "in a tearing rage"; "vehement dislike"; "violent passions"
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
and as for the ever popular NRA slogans
"you can have my gun, when you pry it from my dead fingers"
They will, and then use it to waste and innocent family.
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"
Actually it's the bullets who kill people, ripping through organs, limbs, larger caliber bullets causing hydrostatic shock, so even a leg wound can kill almost instantly.
Bullets make to shred on impact to tear up as much as possible.
But guns weren't made to kill? WTF are they for then?
to many moving parts, and too greasy for paperweights.
makes a horrible pet.
marital aids? only if your REALLY kinky
art? uhmmm nope.
the only thing they were ever designed for is to do the maximum damage to a living creature.
"you can have my gun, when you pry it from my dead fingers"
They will, and then use it to waste and innocent family.
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"
Actually it's the bullets who kill people, ripping through organs, limbs, larger caliber bullets causing hydrostatic shock, so even a leg wound can kill almost instantly.
Bullets make to shred on impact to tear up as much as possible.
But guns weren't made to kill? WTF are they for then?
to many moving parts, and too greasy for paperweights.
makes a horrible pet.
marital aids? only if your REALLY kinky
art? uhmmm nope.
the only thing they were ever designed for is to do the maximum damage to a living creature.
AnomalousEntity
New Member
MrBishop said:
Actually every IQ test Ive taken shows my IQ between 146 and 154.
So if you are going to use that as the "benchmark"
Your in big trouble.
AnomalousEntity
New Member
MrBishop said:They lied...must've had something to do with the gun in your lap.
Seriously...there's no need for name calling...as I said several posts before, we have different viewpoints....end of story.
Bish
Your name calling was much much worse than mine.
I think everyone who has seen this thread can now judge your maturity for themselves....
I think you are more concerned with your ideals and views then you are about reality and the saftey of individuals violently attacked.
As long as you are so convinced a weapon would do nothing to help as a self defensive tool then you then there is no point in discussing it.
I however, would rather live in the real world.
And no its not designed to kill. Its only designed to launch a projectile
For those of you unable to understand this....take any gun related self defense course and the first thing your going to hear (AND HEAR OVER AND OVER AND OVER). IS:
"your goal is not to kill, you goal is to stop an attacker as quickly as possible to prevent injury to the person being attacked"
You do this with the minimum force necessary and escalate the prescribed force until goal is met.
1) shout to stop
2) "light hands"
3) " Heavy hands"
4) Use of weapon 1st shot
5) Use of weapon 2nd shot...
If the attacker is already using or is about to use deadly force, you must in turn respond by starting at step 4 remember "as quickly as possible TO PREVENT INJURY...."
Etc etc.
When you laugh at the comment that its not specifically designed to kill...you really really show your ignorance.
(re-read the phrase "to prevent injury to the person being attacked" about 1,000 and maybe you get it (probably not)).
Most gun shot victims survive
If you really believe they are only "designed to kill" then you would also have to concede that it is one of the most failed tools in the history of inventions.
It would be like having a saw that only cuts 20% of the time or so...
Think of those commercials: "10% gauranteed to work"
I WANT MY MONEY BACK, IVE FIRED MY GUNS THOUSANDS OF TIMES AND NO ONE HAS DIED YET.
Come on guys...it isnt rocket science. Stop letting your idealistic eutopian views cloud your ability to see reality.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
What kind of guns do you own, what kind of ammo do you use.
.22 caliber may not kill, might be a simple through and through
the high caliber handguns, withe dum dum ammo, or things that shred are not meant to wound, they are meant to stop as in stop dead.
the hydrostatic shock can kill easily.
when you fling a progectile at someone at that speed, you are not trying to wound, it's going for the kill.
In all the shooting classes I had, they said aim for the torso, more chance to hit, more stopping power (as in put em down dead).
.22 caliber may not kill, might be a simple through and through
the high caliber handguns, withe dum dum ammo, or things that shred are not meant to wound, they are meant to stop as in stop dead.
the hydrostatic shock can kill easily.
when you fling a progectile at someone at that speed, you are not trying to wound, it's going for the kill.
In all the shooting classes I had, they said aim for the torso, more chance to hit, more stopping power (as in put em down dead).
AnomalousEntity
New Member
paul_valaru said:
Yes, you shoot for the Center of Mass ....from a physics perspective, shooting the center of mass will KNOCK THEM DOWN FASTER.
Thats the only reason...it has nothing to do with killing.
I have a .12G shotgun,
2 .40 Caliber hand guns
A small .32 caliber hand gun.
The smaller calibers are useless for self defense because they have almost no "knock down power"
If all you wanted was to kill (they would eventually bleed to death etc etc)....the small caliber would work fine...but it wouldnt work for self defense because they would have plenty of time to kill you first.
If you want to stop...you want a larger caliber that can knock them down in 1 shot.
A .40 is 96% effective for this. a .357 is 97% effective for this.
I dont know how good your anatomy is but the chance of dying is much higher if the bullet hits the heart, a bit lower if it hits a major artery, a bit lower still if it hits a lung etc etc.
I use .40 cal High Velocity hollow points. They dont penetrate as deep so may not injure vital organs as much but they apply a higher foot pound per square inch upon the target which results in an overall "push" more so than a deep penetration (by the way your .22 example is more about penetration and almost no "push". The soldiers in WW1 called it the "black death" or somthing because they might not get knocked down, but they would bleed to death, or die from infections and complications).
Again, your goal is to stop. If the attacker dies in the process...its his own dammed fault for pulling the knife, gun, or raping someone in the first place...not mine.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
AnomalousEntity said:
Dude!!!!
.40 cal hollowpoints
center mass
The guy is dead.
The bullet leaves the gun at 1,300 to 1,800 feet per second (depending on the grain), figure 10 feet, away, it still si going at least 1000 FPS
it enters the body
the bullet mushrooms, expanding, becomes a blunt instrument traveling at close to, if not more that the speed of sound, and will punch out the persons back leaving a hole the size of a fist.
if by chance, no major organs are hit, and no major arteries are torn. The fact that we are 70% water enters the factor, it sends a shockwave through our gelitin like bodies, pulverising organs.
DOA
AnomalousEntity
New Member
paul_valaru said:
Even the very fastest Cor-bons dont travel much over 1200 fps.
Where did you your info from?
No 9mm+ travels around 1150-1280
A .357 Magnum only goes about 1350 tops....
And its not just depending on the grain...it also depends on how much gun powder is loaded into the shell.
You think they are dead?
Tell that to the cops who shot a guy 6 times in the chest with 124gr .357 magnums (the number 1 rated round in the world for knock down power)
And it "killed him so much" he beat the shit out of both cops!
Of course if they hadnt shot him...he would have probably killed them both....yet another tale of guns SAVING LIVES.
My wife took care of a 14 yr old who was shot in the chest point blank while in the check out line at a groc store. (too bad his dad didnt carry a gun....it probably could have been avoided).
Anyway my wife said it almost looked like his chest was hamburger....and he lived.
She also took care of an entire family that was literally "shot to pieces" by a home invasion. The family did not put up any fight and they killed about 2/3rs of the family. Dont tell me your bullshit stories about "if you just coorperate...your ok"
If you do cooperate...there still a very good chance your still dead.
Again..if they had set up with access to guns...it may have never happened.
Folks I have personally seen the wounds, deaths, and tradegy from folks not taking the necessary precations...so I could give a shit about your "theories"...I know the reality.
None of them were "accidents" all were attempted/succeded murders.
I have also taken care of crimals whos attacks were ended suddenly by a person taking defensive action shooting back at them.
Dont tell me it doesnt save lives...because I know better.
Please re-read my feelings on the subject:
AnomalousEntity
New Member
PuterTutor said:
And you are the best argument I can think of for people who think "it will never happen to me" and get blown away.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
PuterTutor said:
I'm afraid I have to agree, I don't know you at all, I don't think your a nutball or anything, maybe it's because it't the internet, and we can't use tonalities, or facial, body language.
but the jist of your arguement, which is your opinion, leads me to beleive you might be one of those people to shoot first, ask questions later.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
AnomalousEntity said:
Not directed at me, but 30 years, only been shot once.
and the times I was carrying, was the only times I thought I'd die
AnomalousEntity
New Member
PuterTutor said:
Sorry about the previous retort. Im having a bad week at work.
A couple things
1) If all you can contribute are personal attacks...perhaps you should not contribute?
2) If you will look at the times you will see that NO POSTS WERE EDITED AFTER A REPLY WAS ENTERED.
I could explain to you that doing it prior to a response is acceptable, but Ill assume you can reason that out for yourself.
I know I should slow down...but my job is hectic some times and I try to make quickposts.
I think one of two actually did get edited....AS SOMEONE was replying...so sorry!
AnomalousEntity
New Member
paul_valaru said:
Umm thanks?
Ok I dont blame you for going there, some points for that.
1) I have been carrying since 96 without incident.
2) I have never brandished or reach for my weapon (and I hope like hell I never have to)
3) I am a very over-percautions (err on the side of caution) type person (this is why I take any and every precaution type person).
4)When it comes to discerning real threat...I am very cautions/conservative. If I ever do use a weapon, Ill make DAMMED SURE its appropriate. In fact, Ill gaurantee you Id be MORE DISCRIMINATING/CAUTIONS than 90% of the police making patrols.