Our ambassadors of peace speak

[flavio]

Whatever happened to that Bin Laden guy?

 

[Ardsgaine]

It's ridiculous to say that everyone who believes we should go to war against Iraq should join the military. In the first place, it simply isn't necessary. We have a professional military that's perfectly capable of handling the job. In the second place, not everyone is of an age or is physically capable of going to war, yet they still have the right to an opinion on the subject. In the third place, if everyone joined the military, it would bankrupt the economy.

In the end, this argument is like saying that you don't have the right to advocate arresting crooks if you're not on the police force. It's absurd!

Squiggy made this personal by calling my courage into question, and it pissed me off. I don't care to discuss with him or anyone else my reasons for not being in the military-- not when the question is put to me as a condition of my being able to advocate war with Iraq. I'm not going to dignify his argument with explanations.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Jeslek]

Ards, I could respect your opinion and willingness to sacrifice lives if I knew your ass would be one of those at risk. Are you going to be there or are you only so willing because its other people's lives?

I agree with Ards, and yes, I will be there when it gets to that, period. I'm kicking my ass already for not enlisting a year ago. I'm sooo angry and dismayed I won't be there in Iraq to fight for what I believe. And yes, I will be willing to die for my country and for my people and for what I believe in.

 

[Jeslek]

It's ridiculous to say that everyone who believes we should go to war against Iraq should join the military. In the first place, it simply isn't necessary. We have a professional military that's perfectly capable of handling the job. In the second place, not everyone is of an age or is physically capable of going to war, yet they still have the right to an opinion on the subject. In the third place, if everyone joined the military, it would bankrupt the economy.

Exactly. But believe me, before the drafting legislation, IF it comes to that, hits the table, I will be there to fight out of my own free will.

 

[Squiggy]

Again, I'm not questioning your courage. I'm questioning your conviction. You are advocating an action that could place my children in jeapordy. You're damn right I'm going to question those who would do that, but not go themselves. Unless you've experienced war, or are willing to, don't be so fast to wish it on others. That "wall" mentioned in the initial post contains the names of many of my freinds. I don't like when people are so frivilous with the lives of others. If you have legitimate reasons for not going, fine. But it does, in fact, reflect on your right to wish others would die for you. And thats just the way it is. Hypocrisy is the ONLY sin.

 

[Gonz]

Whatever happened to that Bin Laden guy?

In the off chance you are serious. He's dead. He's alive, shaved his beard & is undergoing dialysis. He's alive & making our lives pure hell. He's retired to Jamaica with 70 non-virgins & an expense accoount.

In short, nobody knows.

I think he's dead.

 

[PT]

My vote is somewhere in Egypt.

 

[Gato_Solo]

It's ridiculous to say that everyone who believes we should go to war against Iraq should join the military. In the first place, it simply isn't necessary. We have a professional military that's perfectly capable of handling the job. In the second place, not everyone is of an age or is physically capable of going to war, yet they still have the right to an opinion on the subject. In the third place, if everyone joined the military, it would bankrupt the economy.

We're stretched kind of thin right now, and are actually in need of more enlistees. It's a fact I am well aware of seeing as I am serving right now.

In the end, this argument is like saying that you don't have the right to advocate arresting crooks if you're not on the police force. It's absurd!

Argue apples and apples, not apples and oranges. Criminals are on a hugely smaller scale than engaging an entrenched, heavily armed enemy.

Squiggy made this personal by calling my courage into question, and it pissed me off. I don't care to discuss with him or anyone else my reasons for not being in the military-- not when the question is put to me as a condition of my being able to advocate war with Iraq. I'm not going to dignify his argument with explanations.

And that's all I have to say about that.

If you won't answer him, then answer me. Are you willing to serve?

 

[Ardsgaine]

Argue apples and apples, not apples and oranges. Criminals are on a hugely smaller scale than engaging an entrenched, heavily armed enemy.

That's a difference in scale, not in principle. The principle is the same. I have the right to advocate war against Iraq without being in the military, just as I have the right to advocate fighting crime without being on the police force.

I don't care to discuss with him or anyone else my reasons for not being in the military-- not when the question is put to me as a condition of my being able to advocate war with Iraq.

If you won't answer him, then answer me. Are you willing to serve?

Read what I said again.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Then you give us no alternative but to question your courage.

And the principal is not the same. The effect is not the same, and the reasoning is not the same. Your local street-thug is just that...local. Crimes are just that...crimes. Military action is a function of failed diplomacy. You can't be diplomatic with a criminal.

I was going to agree with Squiggy in his assessment of yur conviction 100%. Any reason you could give for not serving is most likely going to be lame, anyway. Any stance you take dealing with military action from this point on will be met with derision and ridicule. It's one thing to be physically/emotionally/religiously unfit for serving, and quite another to ask others to do the job for you. It smacks of hypocrisy, and most likely is. You may not be a coward, but you certainly lack the fortitude to answer one simple question...and it is simple.

 

[PT]

Alright ALREADY!

I'm not going to serve, and I'll tell you why, but I reserve the right to say when and where our troops should go to war. Why? Because you are there to defend US against all enemies, foreign and domestic. When you joined the U.S. military, you gave your life to your country, whether or not you get it back is still yet to be seen, but until your commitment is up, you belong to the U.S. The citizens of our country tell our government what to do, the government tells you what to do. Don't like it? Get the fuck out.

Why I won't join the Military.

These reasons may be Lame in your eyes, Gato, but quite frankly, I don't give a fuck if you do. I'm a father, of six children. My children need me, not just the money I make, but they need me in our house to help raise them, making them into people that will make a difference sometime in the future. Second, I don't want to. Yep, that's right, I don't want to join the military, it's not that I'm afraid of dying, I see it as a career choice, and that is one choice I don't want. That's one of the freedoms I have because of past actions of our military.

 

[Jeslek]

Why I won't join the Military.

These reasons may be Lame in your eyes, Gato, but quite frankly, I don't give a fuck if you do. I'm a father, of six children. My children need me, not just the money I make, but they need me in our house to help raise them, making them into people that will make a difference sometime in the future.

Gee, I really honestly respect you for that. I want to enlist pretty badly, but if I'm going to have a family, I can't be in the military, IMHO. Completely agree with you here and I admire you for that.

Second, I don't want to. Yep, that's right, I don't want to join the military, it's not that I'm afraid of dying, I see it as a career choice, and that is one choice I don't want. That's one of the freedoms I have because of past actions of our military.

Everyone is different, and everyone has to make a choice of his/her career. Yes military is a career, and I've thought about it. Not everyone wants to be military, and that is a valid choice.

 

[PT]

My point was, is that you don't dare tell us we have any less of a right to say where or when we should be attacking another country just because we aren't in the military. It would be a scary world indeed if only the people in the military could make those decisions.

 

[Jeslek]

My point was, is that you don't dare tell us we have any less of a right to say where or when we should be attacking another country just because we aren't in the military. It would be a scary world indeed if only the people in the military could make those decisions.

Agreed Military is there to serve the government, which is there to serve us. Civilians. I think you said that up there.

 

[Squiggy]

Advocating war while refusing to go is like complaining about the President when you refused to vote. It is total hypocrisy at best. Sorry PT, but those rights and freedoms that you enjoy do carry a military obligation. Just because we are in a volunteer 'mode' now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

 

[PT]

So then you are saying that unless you are in the military, you should have NO opinion on whether or not we go to war? That is hypocrisy at its best.

 

[Gato_Solo]

So I'm a bad parent because I'm military? Bad choice of words PT. That in itself has only added fuel to the fire. Now I'm not only am I fighting for people like you to stay and use me like a pawn on a chess board, I'm unfit to raise children. You are the worst sort of arm-chair strategist and hypocrite that I have ever seen. You revel in the right to speak, gauranteed by the constitution, but backed up by people like me who are willing to put our actions behind our words. You hide in the fact that you are a parent, and that you have to be there for your kids. Fine by me, but it doesn't detract from the fact that your life is built on the blood of those who will protect it. Fuck me? Fuck you.

Secondly...If you're going to post as Ardsgaine, you need to stick to answering as Ardsgain, as now you look kind-of silly.

 

[Squiggy]

So then you are saying that unless you are in the military, you should have NO opinion on whether or not we go to war? That is hypocrisy at its best.

Thats not what I said at all. I said "while refusing to go". That means you can advocate war without being in the military as long as you are willing to die for the same cause that you would want others to die for. War isn't a silly game. It deserves a lot more consideration than a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[PT]

First of all, it was not meant as a jab at your parenting abilities. It was meant as my reasons for NOT joining the military. If you are able to do it, great. I am not.

Second, I am not Ards, I have not, nor will ever, use alts. I will however comment when I feel there is something to comment about, as this is an Open discussion forum, I felt I had the right to jump in when I feel there is something needing to be said.

 

[Squiggy]

PT, I was left with the same impression that you were Ards. Its just the way it reads. Thanks for clearing that up.