Our ambassadors of peace speak

PuterTutor said:
I just get a very hostile feeling from you that if you aren't in the military, you aren't worthy of making decisions. I don't see how you can justify this. There is more to life than the military, and just because I am not willing to serve my country in that capacity does not mean I have no say or should have no opinion on what my country does.
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Once again, you miss the point. I said that if you are going to call for a war, and you aren't willing to serve, then you have branded yourself a hypocrite. How else can it be said? If you think that's hostile, then that's just too bad. I'm not going to pat your hand, and tell you I'm sorry, and I'm certainly not going to tell you that you're right. I'm going to give you a dictionary, and have you look up the word hypocrite, and let you move on. Perhaps angrier, but somehow thinking outside of your 'box'. Rights have responsibilities. If you exercise your rights, and ignore the responsibilities, you'll soon find that those rights will be taken away. You can't have it both ways, and it's time for society in general to either put up, or shut up on the subject of rights by actually looking at the responsibilities. We, in the military, have vowed to follow the responsibilities that go with those rights, and to protect those rights for those who cannot protect themselves. Others don't fare as well. We'll protect your rights, and we do it because we must, even though you should be doing it as well.
 
*Sigh*

I started writing a really nasty post for Gato, and I've decided not to go there. I'm done with that debate. I've made my argument, and there's nothing left to add. I don't want to get into a contest to see who can be the most insulting, because it's not a contest I want to win.
 
Once again, you miss the point. I said that if you are going to call for a war, and you aren't willing to serve, then you have branded yourself a hypocrite.
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If you choose not to serve, however, that does not mean that you should give up your rights. It does, however, mean that your opinion, however poignant, will be held in less regard by me than those who actually are serving.
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Any reason you could give for not serving is most likely going to be lame, anyway.
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Any stance you take dealing with military action from this point on will be met with derision and ridicule.
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So did I miss the point in these as well? You're obviously very proud of serving your country in the capacity that you do, as you should be. You do however have to realize that the reason you are serving your country is for the everyday people like HomeLAN, Ards, and me. Not everyone is going to serve in the capacity that you do, but just because we don't doesn't mean we lack the capacity to understand.
 
Forget it, PT. You're talking to a brick wall who meets arguments with derision and meets a lack of arguments with a snide remark.
 
I tell the truth, and you meet it with dodges and statements that mean nothing. You stand by and say you have a right to call for war. I say areyou willing to serve. You say that you are not, but you stand by and still say that you are correct in your assessment. I call you a hypocrite, meaning that you are willing to say something, but not willing to do something. Then you get upset when I say that your opinions on the use of the military are going to be met with derision and ridicule. Awww. Boo-hoo. My heart breaks for you, and your conviction is lacking. Seems all that you will ever do is pay lip service.
 
HomeLAN said:
Forget it, PT. You're talking to a brick wall who meets arguments with derision and meets a lack of arguments with a snide remark.
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In my heart, I know you're right, but seeing as I'm at work, and it's a slow day, I really don't have much better to do, so I figure, why not?
 
Ok, Gato

By your reasoning, if I don't work at McDonalds, I don't have a right to comment on their sandwiches. I don't have a right to say they should do something differently or how they should do it. If I don't work for the police, I don't have a right to say they should bust the drug house down the road, or that they shouldn't use force when it's not necessary.

You are the hypocrite.

There is life outside the military, Gato. Believe it or not, that is the life you are paid to protect. Not the life you lead, no. The life that the average Joe leads. To suggest to the average Joe that he should stay out of it unless he is willing to fight is ridiculous. This is OUR country, yours and mine, and we both have an equal say in how it is ran, down to the wars we fight. Now if you want to talk about strategies, I will bow down to your superior knowledge, but when you are talking issues that concern ALL of us, even if not directly, I will stand up for myself and defend my position to the end. If you want to ridicule me, or discard my thoughts, fine. That's one of the rights you are protecting as well, but remember, that's my right too, one which I plan on exercising.
 
By my reasoning, and I'll say this again, a slightly different way and hope you'll understand. Your rights come with corresponding duties. Your freedoms come at a price. You ask for something to happen and, through your rights, this thing happens. This is how it works today. However, these things come at a price. You have these rights, but you also have a responsibility to stand up and fight for those rights. If you are not willing to stand up and fight for those rights you have made yourself out to be a hypocrite. You pay lip service to a problem without offering any kind of sacrifice or toil to solve the problem and reap the 'rewards' of that solution. You wish others to go out and make the sacrifice for you, because your personal life will not 'permit' you to make those sacrifices. This is not like the McDonald's scenario you put up there at all. There is no personal sacrifice entailed in making a comment about there sandwiches. Indeed, there is no loss of personal freedom for others if you make those comments either. Yet, you seem to think that calling up an air strike, or a ground invasion is just as simple a statement. I know you know better. As for your 'life outside the military' statement, I'll take that and dutifully ignore it. All soldiers, sailors, marines, and airman come from civilian life initially, and to imply that we are out of touch with that world is even more insulting than any of my snide remarks so far.
 
The "life outside the military" comment was meant to do exactly that, I understand the seriousness of my comments, that calling for an airstrike will most likely kill several people, as well as endanger the life of a brave young man that is flying the plane. The thing is, that brave young man VOLUNTEERED to protect our country so the rest of us wouldn't have to. Yes, there are responsibilities to having the freedoms we enjoy. For YOU, you have chosen to serve our country in the Military. For ME, I serve our country by paying taxes, voting, and speaking my mind when I feel it is necessary. Different? Yes. Is one less honorable than the other? I don't think so.

Just because I'm not on the front lines of war does not mean that I have no say in whether or not we ever go there. I have a right to speak my mind because I am an American, not because I serve my country in the way YOU see fit.
 
I'll re-iterate my question. Are you willing to put your life on the line for your beliefs? Are you willing to do what you ask others to do for you? I pay taxes, I vote, and I speak my mind. I also back my words with the ability and the will to do what I ask others to do.
 
Was I willing? Yes. Did I make the decision to do this? No. I chose a different life. Why does that make my opinion less worthy than yours?
 
PuterTutor said:
Was I willing? Yes. Did I make the decision to do this? No. I chose a different life. Why does that make my opinion less worthy than yours?
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That's the whole point of this argument/debate. You're in IT, and, from what I understand, an SA. Suppose I'm one of your supervisors, and I told you that you should buying all new LINUX workstations. I then tell you that you have to make sure everything is compatible with the existing network. To top it all off, I'm not going to help you install them or configure them. How would you feel? Now add in the fact that 30% of your users don't want the new systems. They want MAC's, and they can, after a bit of politics, get the department to get MAC's as well.
 
Yeah, that very thing has pretty well happened. Either I'm stupid or you're going to have to do a bit more explaining to get your point across here.
 
MitchSchaft said:
Until you fuckers enlist in Marine Corps infantry, you're all sissies :D.
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But you're only a Real Man after you get booted out, Right? :p :D
 
Just had to get it in there, no offence. You did more than I, and I still respect you for that.
 
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