Paper or plastic?

Gato_Solo

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
A question we all hear quite often. Being a bit on the 'environmental' side, I usually get paper (50% recycled). This is my choice, and should remain just that...a choice. My wife prefers plastic (biodegradable at my insistence). Those handles are just so darned useful...For people in California (San Fran, at least), there is no choice anymore. While I applaud the idea behind this, I do not agree with the implementation.
 
We have recyclable plastic bags for the most part. I re-use them for kitty litter..so they get two uses and biodegrade. Not too shabby.

For places that don't use the biodegradable plastic bags, I've got several jute bags at home that I re-use.
 
We get both...depending on need at home. Banning a safe, legal product is asinine.
 
Gonz said:
We get both...depending on need at home. Banning a safe, legal product is asinine.
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I have no heartburn over the idea of non-biodegradable bags getting a 15 cent surcharge. If you want to use it, then you pay for it. :shrug: As you said, though, a legal product should not be banned. Calling them safe is another issue as it boils down to 'safe for who/what'?
 
This is my choice, and should remain just that...a choice.
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Banning a safe, legal product is asinine.
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San Francisco supervisors and supporters said that by banning the petroleum-based sacks, blamed for littering streets and choking marine life, the measure would go a long way toward helping the city earn its green stripes.

Yeah, not letting people make a choice to screw up the environment is asinine.
 
Yes it is.

If they are littering, use an existing law. We don't need new laws & we don't need products to be banned.

I'm curious, do they have the ME reports on plastic bag deaths?
 
Gonz said:
Yes it is.

If they are littering, use an existing law. We don't need new laws & we don't need products to be banned.
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Nope, when it affects more than yourself it isn't.

Of course we only need new laws when you want to meddle in people's personal decisions that don't affect anyone else.
 
spike said:
Of course we only need new laws when you want to meddle in people's personal decisions that don't affect anyone else.
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Oh good, the homosexual marriage debate again. Too bad you can't see 230 years worth of historical reference as precedent.
 
I use plastic bags for many other things... taking out the used kitty litter, liner for the bathroom trash can, hell, even as luggage on occasion.
 
Gonz said:
We get both...depending on need at home. Banning a safe, legal product is asinine.
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I'd hazard to say that petroleum-based plastic bags might be legal, but safe?
http://atdpweb.soe.berkeley.edu/pix/maui/landfill.jpg

Hell, even the biodegradable plastics aren't all that good.
Plastic bags are a problem for a variety of reasons. These include:

As a single use disposable form of packaging, plastic bags are typically used for a short period of time but take hundreds of years to break down in landfill (National Plastic Bags Working Group, Report, page 5).
In the marine environment, Planet Ark estimates that plastic bags kill at least 100,000 birds, whales, seals and turtles every year.
Plastic bags are an extremely visible and unsightly component of litter items collected. Their persistence means that the number of bags in the environment will increase over time. Currently, Local and State Governments around Australia spend more than $200 million per year picking up litter.
The production of plastic bags accounts for some 37,000 tonnes of plastic polymer that is derived from non-renewable resources. While plastic bags can be recycled, major supermarkets only collect small amounts through their recycling facilities for reprocessing.
Plastic bags are considered to be a 'free' commodity but the cost to households of $10 to $15 per year is added to the price of goods that they purchase.
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Regular plastic bags
 
Pictures of the dump are supposed to be ugly.

The choice is ours to make. Mother Earth doesn't care if it's brown paper or U-232, she'll still get rid of it. We, given the non-PC information, need to make, and have, a choice.
 
Gonz said:
Pictures of the dump are supposed to be ugly.

The choice is ours to make. Mother Earth doesn't care if it's brown paper or U-232, she'll still get rid of it. We, given the non-PC information, need to make, and have, a choice.
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Mother earth may be able to get rid of it eventually, but then again..our sun will blow up in a few billion years so it won't make a difference :rolleyes:

Like it or not...landfills take up space, pollute the ground water and are the perfect petri dish for the next bacterium. We don't do more than just bury the stuff and hope that it'll go away on its own.

Plastic bags, not unlike over-packaged goods, are fine examples of conspicuous consumption. Do we need 1/2 pound of plastic and cardboard wrapped around a CD with a game on it? Nope - but the packaging looks slick, eh.
Do we need plastic bags when grocery shopping? Nope - but it is easier than dragging around a dozen cloth bags.

It's laziness - pure and simple. Perhaps people should be paying for their laziness.
Want a plastic bag? That'll be $1 please.
Don't feel like recycling, reducing waste, composting? $5/bag of garbage you toss out (full or nearly empty).
 
MrBishop said:
Do we need plastic bags when grocery shopping? Nope - but it is easier than dragging around a dozen cloth bags.

It's laziness - pure and simple. Perhaps people should be paying for their laziness.
Want a plastic bag? That'll be $1 please.
Don't feel like recycling, reducing waste, composting? $5/bag of garbage you toss out (full or nearly empty).
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:thumbup:

Good points. Maybe it should be even more expensive. It's not only laziness but also just unthinking habit. Right now stores give you a bag (or even double bag) automatically when there's no need.

I've stopped for a single loaf of bread on more than one occasion and had clerks double bag it. WTF? It's already in a bag!

I say ban the petroleum based bags and charge a premium or deposit for the biodegradable ones with proceeds going to a fund to counteract their effect.
 
Money counteracts the effect of pollution? Hot damn!!!

MrBishop said:
Like it or not...landfills take up space, pollute the ground water and are the perfect petri dish for the next bacterium.
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Stopping things with as little mass as plactic bags have virtually no effect on landfills. Don't you remember? PLastic bags stops the rainforst from getting chopped down.
 
Gonz said:
Money counteracts the effect of pollution? Hot damn!!!
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It sure would. If it's put towards the proper programs.

Stopping things with as little mass as plactic bags have virtually no effect on landfills.
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No, the truly massive numbers of plastic bags used has a huge effect.

Don't you remember? PLastic bags stops the rainforst from getting chopped down.
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Uhhh...no.
 
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