Proof of WMD...

Raven

Annoying SOB
Arent those warehouses ull of dismembered bodies dating back to 80's proof enougfh of the mass distruction that the baathist govenment was capable of? Who said you need a long ranged delivery system or stockpiles of anthrax? All you need is an army of fanatics with AK's and you've got your WMD. So why is this aspect of 'Mass Distruction' never focused on or included in any of the attacks on the coalitions morals and reasonings?

discuss
 

chcr

Too cute for words
1. That's not the reason we were given by the administration.

2. We are not, nor should we be the world's police force. There are a lot more tyrannies out there, it is not a good enough reason to spend American lives. I'm pretty sure the British largely feel the same way.
 

Raven

Annoying SOB
chcr said:
2. We are not, nor should we be the world's police force. There are a lot more tyrannies out there, it is not a good enough reason to spend American lives. I'm pretty sure the British largely feel the same way.

So an American life is worth more than say an Iraqi life or an Iranian life or an Afghan life ad inifinitum. Thats BS. Any life sacrificed in the pursuit of freedom for yourself or anyone else is an honourable and noble sacrifice. No matter who you are or where you come from your most basic human right is freedom. Now I am English and I would be quite proud if our boys fought for the freedom of another nation purely to remove a despotic, genocidal government from power (Serbia, Bosnia and Coratia anyone?) Sure any losses would be mourned but the gains for every single human being in that country/area/continent would be a worthy outcome. Maybe thats just my outlook on it all and I believe that whatever the reasons Iraq is now better off. Lets hear other peoples views and ANY references to polcing the world will be ignored, that was a decision on the part of America and I agree with chcr on this one.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
Serbia, Bosnia and Coratia anyone?
1. As part of a UN peacekeeping force.
2. Do you honestly believe these countries are better off now than they were?
 

outside looking in

<b>Registered Member</b>
I think it's pretty much a given that Saddam was evil, caused more than his fair share of deaths, suffering, etc., and that if left in power would be a continuing threat of some magnitude. I think it's also clear that if he didn't have a significant stockpile of WMD's when we invaded, he would have had we left him alone - as soon as UN inspections ceased, he'd have made weapons like crazy. He may have anyway - we've yet to hear the final word on that.

However, the Bush administration didn't just say Saddam was crazy, or evil, or a lingering threat, or a severe human rights violator, but rather told the public that Iraq was an immediated threat to our country, that the danger was eminent, and that we had little choice but to invade right now.

I still strongly believe that we did the right thing. If Bush gets nailed, I'll still be glad he made the decision that he did. The question that the public demands to be answered is whether doing it now was in agreement with international law (if the reasons were fabricated) and whether he intentionally misled the public.
 

Raven

Annoying SOB
chcr said:
1. As part of a UN peacekeeping force.
2. Do you honestly believe these countries are better off now than they were?
1. Peace keeping to stop the genocide of muslim minorties
2. I honestly believe that now all the street fighting has stopped and life is returning to normal and people like Slobodan Milosovic are no longer in control that the civillian populations of these countries are much safer and better of than they were before. The emotional, social and economic damage will take decades to repair but they are far better off now than they were in the past
 

outside looking in

<b>Registered Member</b>
A dictator spends decades tearing a country apart socially and economically, and if we can't fix it in a couple of months then we're the bad guys?
 

chcr

Too cute for words
2. I honestly believe that now all the street fighting has stopped and life is returning to normal and people like Slobodan Milosovic are no longer in control that the civillian populations of these countries are much safer and better of than they were before. The emotional, social and economic damage will take decades to repair but they are far better off now than they were in the past
More than four and a half years after the war ended in Bosnia and Hercegovina, many ethnic minorities are still unable to repossess their homes in the Bosnian Serb town of Bijeljina, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. An estimated 27,000 out of a pre-war population of 30,000 non-Serbs were expelled from Bijeljina during the war. Only a limited number have returned to the town, in part because their houses are occupied by Bosnian Serbs and Serb refugees from elsewhere in the former Yugoslavia. In certain cases, the police, some of whom are themselves occupying Bosniak houses, have actively discouraged returnees by "warning" them that their safety could not be guaranteed, and "advising" them not to return. In this report, Human Rights Watch documents how the Dayton Peace Agreement, which ended the war in Bosnia and Hercegovina, has not succeeded in restoring a multi-ethnic society. Instead, the authorities in Bijeljina continue to obstruct the implementation of the Dayton agreement, providing neither protection nor equal rights to the Bosniak community of Bijeljina, while actively deterring the return of Bosniaks who were driven from the city during the war.
http://hrw.org/reports/world/b-h-pubs.php

Just one example of many. I think you can rest assured the same things will be happening in Iraq. I've seen it time and again. There is always another tyrant to fill the vacuum, and the alternative is military occuption, which simply makes us the new tyrant.
how do you replace fa,ilies that have been torn apart? Dead children?
So you are then your brother's keeper?
 

Raven

Annoying SOB
chcr said:
So you are then your brother's keeper?

Yes because my brother is more of a dumbass than me and if you do not watch him carefully he will do something stupid very easily. And the fact that he is now 18 and can make life affecting choices without even thinking first means he NEEDS looking after.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
I think you need to read your last post as if you were someone else entirely and think about what it says.

I'm reasonably certain that your brother (much as the Iraqis) has a different opinion, but of course, that 's meaningless, you know what's good for him. :disgust2:
 

ris

New Member
i'll run this one again, just because i like it [and because its still in my clipboard :D]

putertutor said:
Who is to say what is best for the world, is what we believe automatically the way everyone should believe? That's pretty arrogant.
 

Raven

Annoying SOB
ris said:
i'll run this one again, just because i like it [and because its still in my clipboard :D]
Nononono I didnt mean it like that but it is pretty much a given that for the everyday blokes and blokettes in Iraq are better off now that the Ba'athist government (despotism?) is gone.

And yes upon reading my previous post after posting it I did noice my error in judgement
 

chcr

Too cute for words
it is pretty much a given that for the everyday blokes and blokettes in Iraq are better off now that the Ba'athist government (despotism?) is gone.
Until we leave and some ayatollah or another grabs power, the Sunis and Shi'ites start fighting again, etc...

Look at some of the history of the region, steweygrrr. I've always thought it was pretty arrogant of western leaders to think that anything they do could stop it. Just my opinion, but I've been watching since the early seventies.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
Yep but the middle east has been anti western ever since the crusades
Which is one of the reasons a solution imposed by the west will never be accepted, yet every few years some self-important political jackass seems to think he can straighten out a 5000+ year old mess in a few months by getting a "dialogue" started. They have a dialogue going, they just use rifles, missiles and bombs to do the talking.
 

Raven

Annoying SOB
True I do agree with that but religion is always going to be a barrier there too. Anyone growing up taught the west is evil will firmly believe this by the time they take power and as such...well its self explanatory really
 

habanero

Member
Gonz said:
Connection between binLaden & saddam?
Here's a connection.
sackjkhjk.jpg
 
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