Putting the FUN back in Fundimental

Gato_Solo said:
Yes. I mean exactly that.

I'll also take this time to ask 2 questions to Digital, who's tirade I just read...

1. Exactly how are you oppressed? Perhaps you don't have the skill to walk away, or ignore someone who you don't enjoy? Remember...You walked up to him, and started the problem, when you could've left him alone to his ranting...
2. How is your personal hypocrisy better than the hypocrisy you grew up with?
You walk away and he personally attacks you. You ignore him and he personally attacks you. He just likes to yell and scream at people. Namely ones who stand out.
I'm at least happy now. I'm doing things that *I* like, and I don't have to worry if it's "Right with God,"
Where am I a hypocrite? The whole Pepper Spray incident? I explained myself. I'm not going to argue the point of it. I'm just wondering where.
 
Digital said:
You walk away and he personally attacks you. You ignore him and he personally attacks you. He just likes to yell and scream at people. Namely ones who stand out.
I'm at least happy now. I'm doing things that *I* like, and I don't have to worry if it's "Right with God,"
Where am I a hypocrite? The whole Pepper Spray incident? I explained myself. I'm not going to argue the point of it. I'm just wondering where.

Sorry. I'm not buying the 'personal attack' scenerio. You instigated, remember? If all he was doing was yelling and screaming, and you approached him, I already know that you goaded him. Just because he was insecure enough in his own beliefs to withstand your mockery is his problem...not his religions. You claim you went up for a debate, and he called you a 'heretic', and you took offense. Why? According to what he believes to be his religion, you may certainly be a heretic, so what does it matter to you? You already stated that you no longer believe, so why didn't you just smile, nod your head, and walk away? From what I see, you had at least two occasions to remove yourself from a situation that was bad, and you refused to take them, so who's fault is it that the situation got out of hand? Once again, we can only come to one logical conclusion. You wanted to have an altercation with this person, solely because you needed to prove something to yourself, hence the hypocrisy. The choice you made was yours and no others. The fact that it ended badly was more your fault than his. I truly feel sorry for you because you probably don't even understand what I'm trying to say, or you are thinking of some way to blame somebody else for this...
 
I'll never understand. One of the reasons I describe myself as atheist because I don't believe. Period. So many atheists go from disbelief to spewing vile filth at anyone who is or even may be religious. Personal issues I suppose.
 
Gato_Solo said:
That wasn't the point I was making. What I said, in a nutshell, is that, regardless of anyones beliefs, whenever religion is brought up here, there's always a statement of ridicule, an air of intolerance, and a heap of disrespect that seems to follow. You are free to believe, or not believe, but you should respect the belief, or non-belief, of others. That is what the whole premise of Freedom of anything is about. Ridiculing the beliefs, or non-beliefs, of others speaks volumes about how you view Freedom.

There's no other way to say it but this...

If you disrespect the choices of others, you make your own choices suspect as well.

There's something about the discussion of religion which makes it a 'hot topic' and one that usually leads to arguments (much like abortion, politics, and homosexuality)... that something is that the opinions that people hold are ingrained at a young age and are used to differentiate one group from another. Even in Christian ideology, you'll find many instances of 'intollerance towards other religions'...worshiping idols, herecy, etc...even devil worshiping (which was a way to destroy paganism through the charge of witchcraft and demonic possession). The Christian faith is the only faith and only those born again through baptism will be saved.

We often hear of christians calling other religions false or evil. There is disrespect, intollerance and ridicule for other religions...then there is a gasp if anyone reciprocates in kind. Follow that up with the ingrained nature of belief, and it's like throwing fuel to the fire.

This is why I mentioned Evangelism..which is a direct attempt to turn people away from their 'false gods' and bring them back into the light, the one True God and Salvation.

Fighting fire with fire, ridicule with ridicule, intollerance with intollerance seems to be the only way to go.

**Please note that I am playing the Devil's advocate here. I am Anglican (Episcopalian) and generally not fond of my religious convictions being attacked individually...and I've argued along the same lengths as Gato has now on several occasions (protecting the sanctity of church and religion)... but I cannot defend Evangelism, nor the ire that it brings upon its own head** :evilcool:
 
Rose said:
:( the link has been removed. Why?

I'll give you the rundown on the site...it wasn't that fantastic. Dildos and buttplugs in the shapes of crosses, riligious icons (Mary, Jesus, Buddha) and anti-icons (Devil)...with a little humorous note next to each. They were for sale.

Check yer PM
 
MrBishop said:
I'll give you the rundown on the site...it wasn't that fantastic. Dildos and buttplugs in the shapes of crosses, riligious icons (Mary, Jesus, Buddha) and anti-icons (Devil)...with a little humorous note next to each. They were for sale.

Check yer PM


Got it. Didn't need to really see it, but I was just curious as to why it was removed. Didn't seem to make sense. 'Specially as it was edited out by a person who, for a while, had an avatar with the picture of Jesus reading "Jesus loves you but I think you're a cunt" or something along those lines. Tanks for the pm, btw!
 
I don't know why it was edited. Luis gave me the OK. Here's the PM!
Re: New Thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital
Dear Luis
Ok, since I'm still getting the hang of this 'limited' freedom thing. (Most of the places I post at allow anything, even member fights.) So, I was wondering if I could post this website in Luinatic Lounge? nice try dot com ...G
It'd go well with the Jesus Joke Theme, and I'd call it "Putting the FUN back in Fundimentals!"
PM me back with a red or green light, please.

Sincerely,
Digital


It is ok, as long as you put a warning about the content, so people at work won't open the site.

See?
 
MrBishop said:
There's something about the discussion of religion which makes it a 'hot topic' and one that usually leads to arguments (much like abortion, politics, and homosexuality)... that something is that the opinions that people hold are ingrained at a young age and are used to differentiate one group from another. Even in Christian ideology, you'll find many instances of 'intollerance towards other religions'...worshiping idols, herecy, etc...even devil worshiping (which was a way to destroy paganism through the charge of witchcraft and demonic possession). The Christian faith is the only faith and only those born again through baptism will be saved.

We often hear of christians calling other religions false or evil. There is disrespect, intollerance and ridicule for other religions...then there is a gasp if anyone reciprocates in kind. Follow that up with the ingrained nature of belief, and it's like throwing fuel to the fire.

This is why I mentioned Evangelism..which is a direct attempt to turn people away from their 'false gods' and bring them back into the light, the one True God and Salvation.

Fighting fire with fire, ridicule with ridicule, intollerance with intollerance seems to be the only way to go.

**Please note that I am playing the Devil's advocate here. I am Anglican (Episcopalian) and generally not fond of my religious convictions being attacked individually...and I've argued along the same lengths as Gato has now on several occasions (protecting the sanctity of church and religion)... but I cannot defend Evangelism, nor the ire that it brings upon its own head** :evilcool:

AFAIK, preaching on the street corner isn't a crime. Nor is ridiculing the preacher...however...the option to walk away when things get heated is always in effect. You don't like the message? Get up, and walk away. If everybody did this, then how long would the messenger stand there yelling? If you notice...nobody countered what I said about picking a fight in this case, either...
 
About the only religious people I'm intentionally rude to (most of the time, nobody's perfect ;) ) are those who shove it in my face. As Gato says, preaching on the street corner is fine, I have feet. The Jehovah's Witnesses who come to my house are fair game though, as are the jerks at the supermarket who follow you and won't take no for an answer. I don't know if they have these guys everywhere but they're all over down here. I also wonder why I should be more disposed to buy some candy or something from a bake sale because it's for some christian organization. Got something I want? I'll buy it. Don't yell at me as I walk by, "But it's for the church."

As for evangelism, every religion I've experienced has some (though they may call it something else) except buddhism (which isn't exactly a religion, IMO). Maybe I just haven't met the evangelical buddhists yet.

Edit: Note that I do always by cookies from that young female paramilitary organization, though. I especially like the thin mints. :D

Edit again: Hey Gato. do you consider Jesus and nun jokes as "bashing" someones religion?
 
as far as the editing goes, It wasn't the Jesus that was the (my) issue, it was the phalluses. The question was raised, and I agreed. We've edited dildos before on several occasions. I'm sorry Digital, I should have PM'd you when I did it.

*is all for a good phallus in the right place at the right time*
 
Rose said:
Got it. Didn't need to really see it, but I was just curious as to why it was removed. Didn't seem to make sense. 'Specially as it was edited out by a person who, for a while, had an avatar with the picture of Jesus reading "Jesus loves you but I think you're a cunt" or something along those lines. Tanks for the pm, btw!
If you had a comment to make about it, perhaps at the time I actually had the avatar would have been a good time, rather than now when it's meaningless except to whinge/stir the pot cause it's quiet around here?
 
Leslie said:
as far as the editing goes, It wasn't the Jesus that was the (my) issue, it was the phalluses. The question was raised, and I agreed. We've edited dildos before on several occasions. I'm sorry Digital, I should have PM'd you when I did it.

*is all for a good phallus in the right place at the right time*

I've been Moded about something before. Since I know who the mod is for this area, I decided to make it a habbit to inquire him before making such posts.
 
chcr said:
About the only religious people I'm intentionally rude to (most of the time, nobody's perfect ;) ) are those who shove it in my face. As Gato says, preaching on the street corner is fine, I have feet. The Jehovah's Witnesses who come to my house are fair game though, as are the jerks at the supermarket who follow you and won't take no for an answer. I don't know if they have these guys everywhere but they're all over down here. I also wonder why I should be more disposed to buy some candy or something from a bake sale because it's for some christian organization. Got something I want? I'll buy it. Don't yell at me as I walk by, "But it's for the church."

As for evangelism, every religion I've experienced has some (though they may call it something else) except buddhism (which isn't exactly a religion, IMO). Maybe I just haven't met the evangelical buddhists yet.

Edit: Note that I do always by cookies from that young female paramilitary organization, though. I especially like the thin mints. :D

Edit again: Hey Gato. do you consider Jesus and nun jokes as "bashing" someones religion?

Depends upon the nature of the joke. The one about the Pastor and the Bishop I found to be quite hilarious.
 
If it was a joke I posted you can rest assured that I would not deliberately post anything that was bigoted, scornful, derisive, mocking, or contemptuous in nature.

I would be ashamed if I (intentionally or otherwise) publicly ridiculed something that others hold sacred.
 
Sharky said:
If it was a joke I posted you can rest assured that I would not deliberately post anything that was bigoted, scornful, derisive, mocking, or contemptuous in nature.

I would be ashamed if I (intentionally or otherwise) publicly ridiculed something that others hold sacred.

It's not only jokes, Sharky. It's the everpresent atmosphere here. As I said, I liked your joke about the donkey (ass). IMHO, it wasn't based on religion at all, just perceptions. :shrug: Guess I'm just tired of the hypocrisy. People claiming to be liberal and tolerant when it suits them, and turning intolerant and bigoted when religion comes up. What's worse is that nobody seems to care, and when it's pointed out, everybody seems to get quiet, and act as though it never happened. I'm just giving a reality-check here. People may not like it, but I'm giving it anyway.
 
Gato_Solo said:
It's not only jokes, Sharky. It's the everpresent atmosphere here. As I said, I liked your joke about the donkey (ass). IMHO, it wasn't based on religion at all, just perceptions. :shrug: Guess I'm just tired of the hypocrisy. People claiming to be liberal and tolerant when it suits them, and turning intolerant and bigoted when religion comes up. What's worse is that nobody seems to care, and when it's pointed out, everybody seems to get quiet, and act as though it never happened. I'm just giving a reality-check here. People may not like it, but I'm giving it anyway.

It's just the intollerances of religion that brings out the worst in people. There are 2 things you never discuss in polite mixed company: Politics and religion. There's a damn good reason for that. Everyone "knows" they're right, and no one will bend on their beleifs. Religion, IMO is far worse then politics, when it comes to debates. I've seen best of friends part ways because one found a *new religion. With Politics: it's not as coveted, and the attacks aren't as personal. (That is, unless you actually PERSONALLY attack them)

*new religion: Read as, "Just recently converted"
 
Digital said:
It's just the intollerances of religion that brings out the worst in people. There are 2 things you never discuss in polite mixed company: Politics and religion. There's a damn good reason for that. Everyone "knows" they're right, and no one will bend on their beleifs. Religion, IMO is far worse then politics, when it comes to debates. I've seen best of friends part ways because one found a *new religion. With Politics: it's not as coveted, and the attacks aren't as personal. (That is, unless you actually PERSONALLY attack them)

*new religion: Read as, "Just recently converted"

Hate to burst your bubble here, but most of the intolerance I've seen in my life had nothing to do with religion. You chose to berate some guy on a corner claiming to be religious, and he is the one intolerant? Surely you jest. You claim it was nonsense, so if that's what you thought, why didn't you ignore him?
 
Gato_Solo said:
Hate to burst your bubble here, but most of the intolerance I've seen in my life had nothing to do with religion. You chose to berate some guy on a corner claiming to be religious, and he is the one intolerant? Surely you jest. You claim it was nonsense, so if that's what you thought, why didn't you ignore him?
As I've stated before: I tried. I can handle him saying I'm going to hell. (Fuck, I humerously claim that I have a timeshare three blocks down from Satan's home!) I can handle him spouting religious banter. (It's all meaningless to me.) But I cannot handle it when he calls my Girlfriend a whore, and tells me I should leave her because she's "an abomination to god" (she thinks for herself) then calls us foreinacators. (Hehe, damn straight!)
There are three things I gaurd with my life: Friends Family, and Entertainment/Release. (I don't do drugs. So poetry and music are my means for copeing) Like I said before: Come to Portland, man. I'll let you bunk here, and we'll meet up with him for the weekend. I wish I had the picture of his sign. I remember some of what is on it, but not all.
WHY DO YOU HATE GOD?
Alcoholics Pot Heads
Fornicators Rebellious Women
Mormons Jahovas Whitnesses
Homosexuals (like 5 or 7 more)
TURN TOWARS JESUS OR BURN IN HELL
Tell me that, plus him INSULTING people, does not bother you. (If it doesn't, his buddy with the "Fear God" shirt that banters at Pioneer Square should be a little worse. He doesn't bother me, because he just preaches and screams.)
He was on the Willamette Week (for worst of Portland) a few months back.
 
Nope. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. He's entitled to his beliefs the same as you are. Once again, your argument boils down to "I went over to set him straight", in so many words. Nobody forced you. I've heard people like him myself, using that same style of 'preaching'. You know what I do when I see them? Nothing. I totally ignore them. As long as they don't lat a hand on me, or anyone with me, then I ignore them. If they can't be ignored, I just walk away. It's called maturity. There was no need for you to say anything at all to him, but you let your attitude, and your 'machismo' dictate your response. There are people like him all over the world, and they are few, and far between. You only need to do one thing if they bother you, and that's walk away.

BTW...I've been to Lake Oswego on a few occasions, and I've also been to Portland.
 
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