Religious intolerance...

Gato_Solo

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Okay. This is a can of worms I'm going to open up here, but I think its worth discussing. It pits the ACLU against the US Navy. According to the nine members 'uncomfortable' with prayer, they are not forced to pray. They 'feel' peer pressure or summat because everyone else seems to be praying, and they are 'standing out'. Note the word 'seems'. The military works because everyone has to 'seem' to conform. If you cannot manage to fake a prayer, because you are 'uncomfortable' that everyone else seems to be praying, how are you going to conform to your daily, boring, routine military life? I know that there are athiests in the military. I also know that they are not uncomfortable with other people praying. IMO, what we have is nine folks who can't adapt, or are so unsure of themselves that they shouldn't be in in the first place. Those nine also brought up the Constitution...which is a mistake because the Constitution does not ban prayer. It may ban MANDATORY prayer, but, as I said, this prayer is not mandatory.

In a May letter to Vice Admiral Jeffrey L. Fowler, the academy's superintendent, ACLU officials asked the institution to end the prayers on behalf of nine unnamed midshipmen who said the prayer made them uncomfortable and violated the Constitution.
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Winky said:
I am an avowed atheist
I have ‘prayed’ each and every time
it was appropriate.
I felt it was honorable in every circumstance.
Them pansies should be court marshaled!
Now if I found myself in a situation where I had
to face Mecca and make sure get to get my
forehead, nose, both hands, knees and all toes touching the ground together
five times a day
then it would be a whole nuther kettle of fish ;)

Thank God I live in a Judeo-Christian Nation!
Amen
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As long as you weren't forced, then there was no problem. :shrug:
 
I think it is ridiculous as well. If one is not inclined to things religious that is fine, but even so a thought for or well wish for whatever is praying about is worthwhile. I can't stand most evangelicals and I feel most are the worst kinds of hypocrites there are, but I also know that to most people a spiritual connection of some kind is a positive thing. Not all evangelicals are as misguided as the few I have disdain for either. I think faith in something is very good for most of us and gives us some purpose and meaning.

I think these guys are being whiny bitches and ought to try and have compassion and understanding of their fellows who pray and respect their wish to do so. I have never known of any instance when a person's heart is in the right place that a prayer wasn't worthwhile. I am not at all religious, but I do feel there is a loving creator that does guide our lives if we make a sincere effort. To me it's not so important about what that is, but it is important that I love and have gratitude and that I try to love myself and my neighbors as I love myself. This is going too far. It wouldn't hurt these guys to pray at all but if its so important to them that they don't they ought to mind their own fucking business about everyone else doing it!
 
You know, I'm an atheist. Have been one for quite a long time. I have no use whatsoever for religion and think that prayer is an utter waste of time. OTOH, given that the vast majority of people think otherwise, I don't think a little time wasted in the pursuit of mass superstition really does any lasting harm. I think these whiners should suck it up and shut up. Participation isn't required. Explain to the people who bug you about not praying how illogical and woefully inconsistent their belief system really is. They'll leave you alone. As for the ACLU, if they'd be more concerned with everyone's rights and less with their prerogatives, maybe they'd be the useful, important organization they were intended to be instead of the whiny, irrelevant one that they actually are.
 
I know I've sat quietly as many folks around me have prayed. I never felt ostracized. These guys are looking for trouble.
 
so, I guess if those ones causing trouble get captured, all the other side has to do is pray, to break um. Sounds like to me.

don't need that.
 
The ensign, who was a member of one of the two groups that approached the ACLU, asked to remain anonymous because she feared speaking out would harm her Naval career.
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Never should have let women into the military.
 
You miss the point. You're in favor of not allowing women in the military even though they do such a wonderful job. Just because of their sex?

It's ok for the military but "OH NOEZ" if it's a "club".
 
Gato_Solo said:
Okay. This is a can of worms I'm going to open up here, but I think its worth discussing. It pits the ACLU against the US Navy. According to the nine members 'uncomfortable' with prayer, they are not forced to pray. They 'feel' peer pressure or summat because everyone else seems to be praying, and they are 'standing out'. Note the word 'seems'. The military works because everyone has to 'seem' to conform. If you cannot manage to fake a prayer, because you are 'uncomfortable' that everyone else seems to be praying, how are you going to conform to your daily, boring, routine military life? I know that there are athiests in the military. I also know that they are not uncomfortable with other people praying. IMO, what we have is nine folks who can't adapt, or are so unsure of themselves that they shouldn't be in in the first place. Those nine also brought up the Constitution...which is a mistake because the Constitution does not ban prayer. It may ban MANDATORY prayer, but, as I said, this prayer is not mandatory.
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Ummmm... I just want to get clarification. Are you suggesting that they fake saying a prayer to conform and fit in?
 
Professur said:
No, he's suggesting that if not fitting bothers them so much, it's their problem, not anyone else's.
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.up until it affects their career, or until they are 'punished' with extra workload because they don't fit in. Kinda like 'don't ask, don't tell' - but with religion instead of sexuality.

I wonder what Muslims, Buddhists, Jews and other religious members do during this Christian rite.
 
Pretty much whatever needs done. Just like Christians do when devout Muslims drop and pray 12 times a day (yes, I know it's an exaggeration).


Just out of curiosity ... has anyone ever seen an Atheist demand the right to work over Christmas? I have.
 
What people seem to overlook is that many self proclaimed Atheists aren't atheists at all. They're Anti-Christians. Atheists generally wouldn't care, since prayer to them is more wishful thinking than anything else.
 
yep, they are out there, and tome, it's fairly easy to tell the diff, with
what I said as maybe one qualifier in a profile.
 
Anti Evangelicals of all stripes. Not anti-Christians, or anti-Muslims...just people who don't believe and would rather that the theists stop sticking their higher-than-thou noses into everyone else's business.

Don't think that you should work on Sundays..fine, take the day off...but don't make working Sundays illegal. Don't think that homosexuals should marry...don't marry a homosexual, but don't make same-sex marriage illegal. Don't like abortions, don't get one..but don't make abortions illegal. Don't like eating pork,skip the bacon..but don't make eating pork illegal. Don't like the use of condoms, enjoy your bareback riding, but don't rescind donations to organisations that are trying to stop AIDS if they mention condoms. I can go on forever..but frankly, I shouldn't have to.

Separate church and state. Separate church and law.
 
MrBishop said:
Anti Evangelicals of all stripes. Not anti-Christians, or anti-Muslims...just people who don't believe and would rather that the theists stop sticking their higher-than-thou noses into everyone else's business.

Don't think that you should work on Sundays..fine, take the day off...but don't make working Sundays illegal. Don't think that homosexuals should marry...don't marry a homosexual, but don't make same-sex marriage illegal. Don't like abortions, don't get one..but don't make abortions illegal. Don't like eating pork,skip the bacon..but don't make eating pork illegal. Don't like the use of condoms, enjoy your bareback riding, but don't rescind donations to organisations that are trying to stop AIDS if they mention condoms. I can go on forever..but frankly, I shouldn't have to.

Separate church and state. Separate church and law.
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Don't like murder, don't murder anyone ... but don't make murder illegal. Don't like raping children, Leave them kids alone ... but don't make raping children illegal. Don't like having sex with sheep, bang your neighbour's wife instead .... but don't make beastiality illegal...


That is where you're headed, isn't it Bish?

I advise you to remember that most of the laws in the western world originally come from a single source. But I fail to see how that applies to this. Noone's forcing those sailors to pray, are they?
 
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