Sickening

[SouthernN'Proud]

hmmm. perhaps a rephrase.

is there any religious, or secular for that matter, social form (excluding the ones that don't involve formal, or effective, hierarchies) that isn't leveraged for some kinda plooking, pigging, or lascivious licking? seems to me that whenever there's some unequal distribution of power, a peener is going in a hole. whether it's FLDS creepozoids, horny catholic priests, jim jones probing the proletariat, fidel inspecting the, um, cigar factory, whatever...

...or some bass-ackward Arkansas redneck hillbilly shitbag cramming cigars into the hired help mayhap?

(Hope I got all the stereotypes in)

 

[Gonz]

"On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted,"

Ugh oh. That's one of them Texas hanging judges speaking.

SAN ANTONIO - In a crushing blow to the state's massive seizure of children from a polygamist sect's ranch, the Texas Supreme Court ruled Thursday that child welfare officials overstepped their authority and the children should go back to their parents.

source

If they're breaking the law, arrest 'em & kill 'em. If they're unsettling your sensibilities with their weirdness...tuff shit.

 

[2minkey]

...or some bass-ackward Arkansas redneck hillbilly shitbag cramming cigars into the hired help mayhap?

(Hope I got all the stereotypes in)

yup that works too. but at least she was above the age of consent.

 

[2minkey]

Ugh oh. That's one of them Texas hanging judges speaking.



source

If they're breaking the law, arrest 'em & kill 'em. If they're unsettling your sensibilities with their weirdness...tuff shit.

you're claiming victory
one thing is sure
only time will tell



bad 80s "supergroup" mangled lyrical memories brought to you by 2minkey, all rights reserved somebunchofromannumeralshittrailingoffintothedistance

 

[BeardofPants]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

Done to death.

Jeffs has been charged, tried, and convicted by a jury of his peers who were convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty.

So far no one else has been charged.

Wait, isn't one of the things he was charged with is for arranging marriages with other under-age girls? Or I am I thinking of someone else?

 

[jimpeel]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

Wait, isn't one of the things he was charged with is for arranging marriages with other under-age girls? Or I am I thinking of someone else?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0527081flds1.html

Jeffs, the former FLDS leader, was convicted last year of rape as an accomplice for forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry--and have sex against her will with--her 19-year-old cousin.

He was convicted on one case which is under appeal.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/20/jeffs.sentence/index.html

Jeffs, 51, the "prophet" of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, was convicted in September.

He was accused of using his religious influence over his followers to coerce a 14-year-old girl into marriage to her 19-year-old cousin.

...

He has drawn critical attention to the FLDS by allegedly arranging marriages to girls as young as 13, exiling male teens and young men to reduce competition for brides, and reassigning the wives and children of excommunicated male followers.

 

[jimpeel]

Here is the 4 page TX Supreme Court order.

http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/polygamy/inretexdfps52908opn.pdf

 

[spike]

If they're breaking the law, arrest 'em & kill 'em. If they're unsettling your sensibilities with their weirdness...tuff shit.

That has yet to be determined.

"Elisa Wall grew up in an FLDS sect and at age 14, she says she was forced to marry her own cousin."

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=fc424625-8905-4d29-837b-c900fad49722&fg=rss&from=34

Carolyn Jessop
Former FLDS Member

I was shocked when I heard the news of the Texas Appellate Court ruling this afternoon.
Waves of horror washed over me at first as I thought that the children might have to be immediately returned. But that’s not going to happen. This ruling will be appealed. It’s not a knockout punch, but the FLDS obviously gained some ground today.

If those children go back to the complete, unsupervised control of the FLDS at the Yearning for Zion Ranch it would be like throwing gasoline on a fire that’s already burning out of control. It would send a message that the FLDS can get away with any level of crime which would reinforce what society, through its inaction over the years, has reinforced for a very long time. The pattern in the FLDS is, from my experience, that once its leaders can get away with one level of crime they move on to the next.

I know from my conversations with those close to this case that Texas authorities feel they have found a system of abuse within the Eldorado compound. Remember the dozens of babies that were left unattended in a nursery? Or the news this week that 100 kids didn’t match up with any parents in the compound? There will be more information about the physical and sexual abuse of these children when criminal charges are filed. A lot of evidence was taken out in the raid that investigators are still piecing together.

I’ve also been told that in many cases the feeling is that the children now in custody are making steady, if not great gains, in their foster placements. Returning the children to the compound when they are just beginning to feel safe and stable would be catastrophic.

A lot of feelings came rushing back to me this afternoon. Until I won full custody of my children, I felt like the legal system was set-up to protect the perpetrators and not their victims. I didn’t feel that I could get protection for my kids.

As I wrote in Escape, there were times on weekend visitations their father would force my children to fast and pray for my death. I don’t know if I have ever endured a more shattering experience.
Merril Jessop, my ex-husband, is now the most powerful man in the FLDS and running the compound in Texas.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/22/waves-of-horror-former-flds-reacts/

 

[MrBishop]

Here is the 4 page TX Supreme Court order.

http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/polygamy/inretexdfps52908opn.pdf

Thirty-eight mothers petitioned the court of appeals for review by mandamus, seeking return of their 126 children.

What about the other 300-odd kids? Mothers didn't want'em back or were they too young to petition the court?

 

[spike]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

He has drawn critical attention to the FLDS by allegedly arranging marriages to girls as young as 13,

Funny how you stress alleged on 13 yr olds but 14 yr olds have already been proven.

Also amazing how your so gung ho about defending suspected child abusers and pedophiles but not interested in the least in defending suspected abused children or victims of molestations.

 

[Gonz]

That has yet to be determined.

Correct you are. Which is exactly what Mr Peel & I have been arguing. Habeas Corpus. No crime, therefore, no removal of the children.

Yes, I believe these people are all fucked up. Are they pedophiles? Some, undoubtedly. Unfortunately, it is not the states job to pre-judge a criminal. Especially, where they haven't even filed charges.

 

[jimpeel]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

Funny how you stress alleged on 13 yr olds but 14 yr olds have already been proven.

Also amazing how your so gung ho about defending suspected child abusers and pedophiles but not interested in the least in defending suspected abused children or victims of molestations.

At least I am not willing to convict them without a trial and hang them without a conviction.

The children have done nothing wrong but also, in the eyes of the laws as currently written and codified, neither have the adults. That is the part that you will NEVER understand. American law and jurisprudence must prevail over the likes of you and other vigilantes of your stripe.

You call my defense of the basic tenets of law a "rush to judgement" yet my defense of the law is just the opposite. I assume the accused to be inncent until proven guilty. How can my lack of pre-judgement (prejudice) of them be considered in any way a "judgement" of them?

 

[jimpeel]

Looks like the kids are going home

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5813766.html

June 2, 2008, 11:12AM
Texas judge orders return of polygamist group's children


By TERRI LANGFORD
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

A judge approved the release this morning of nearly 450 children from foster care, ending a public, two-month impasse between members of a polygamist church and Texas Child Protective Services over where the children should live while the agency continues investigating child abuse allegations.

State District Judge Barbara Walther signed an agreement that was hammered out over the weekend between about 20 attorneys for CPS and the parents who belong to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Walther, the same judge who ordered the children into foster care nearly two months ago, made the decision after the Texas Supreme Court last week sided with the 3rd Texas Court of Appeals that CPS could have taken other actions before resorting to removal of the children from FLDS' ranch in West Texas.

Release of the children was to begin at 10 a.m. today, but the judge's actions, although anticipated, were not expected to come so quickly. CPS officials, foster care workers and even parents were caught off-guard.

The children were dispersed among 19 foster care facilities across the state, including one in northwest Harris County and another in Liverpool, a small town in Brazoria County.

Walther's ruling also orders FLDS parents to participate in parenting classes and not to interfere with any ongoing investigations. It also allows CPS to make unnannounced visits — from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. — to the FLDS' Yearning For Zion Ranch north of Eldorado, to check on the children.

All children will be photographed, along with their parents, who also must sign affidavits about where the children are going before the children are released back to family members.

CPS officials will continue to investigate allegations of abuse, particularly that underage girls were forced into "spirtual marriages" with adult men.

The FLDS, which broke from the Mormon church more than a century ago, practices polygamy. The state of Texas' parallel criminal investigation also is continuing.

More than 460 FLDS children were removed on April 4 and 5 from the ranch after a caller, claiming to be an abused 16-year-old wife of one of the church members, contacted a women's shelter in San Angelo.

While the call now is thought to have been a hoax, CPS investigators maintain they uncovered proof that children were being sexually and physically abused, justifying the removal of all of the children.

[email protected]

 

[spike]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

At least I am not willing to convict them without a trial and hang them without a conviction.

Yeah, great. Me either.

The children have done nothing wrong but also, in the eyes of the laws as currently written and codified, neither have the adults. That is the part that you will NEVER understand. American law and jurisprudence must prevail over the likes of you and other vigilantes of your stripe.

Where the hell is this vigilantism you speak of?

You call my defense of the basic tenets of law a "rush to judgement" yet my defense of the law is just the opposite.

Your rush to judgment is your unwillingness to consider the evidence and calling them innocent instead of waiting for the results of the trial. All the while you hypocritically rush to judge the social workers as guilty of some scheme without any evidence and insinuate that former FLDS members are lying.

 

[Gonz]

The thought police are alive & well

Walther's ruling also orders FLDS parents to participate in parenting classes

 

[2minkey]

they'll hardly have much to sort out.

 

[jimpeel]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

Your rush to judgment is your unwillingness to consider the evidence and calling them innocent instead of waiting for the results of the trial.

ALL persons accused of ANY crime are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The evidence has yet to be presented; no one has yet been charged, no one has been indicted; no one is in jail; and no trial is scheduled.

I keep telling you that you simply do not understand the tenets of the law and American jurisprudence.

Try to follow me on this one. I will type s-l-o-w-l-y.

If they are not innocent before they are ever arrested; before they are ever indicted; or before the trial commences they are ... ?????????? WHAT ????????? What is the opposite of innocent? Do you want me to link you to a posting of antonyms?

All the while you hypocritically rush to judge the social workers as guilty of some scheme without any evidence and insinuate that former FLDS members are lying.

And the courts, three of them now, have borne me out. They agree with me. They disagree with you.

I didn't insinuate the former members are lying. What I said is that is always a possibility that is not outside of the realm of reason. Disgruntled people lie all of the time about former employers, authority figures, and former associates.

 

[Gonz]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

And the courts, three of them now, have borne me out. They agree with me. They disagree with you.

That's nothing to brag about. The courts are screwed up. See Marbury vs Madison.

 

[jimpeel]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

That's nothing to brag about. The courts are screwed up. See Marbury vs Madison.

When the courts stick to original intent, the intent of the law under scruitiny, and they do not create law from the bench they are doing their job. This appears to be the case in this incidence.

 

[spike]

Re: Any chance this dead horse will wake up?

ALL persons accused of ANY crime are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The evidence has yet to be presented; no one has yet been charged, no one has been indicted; no one is in jail; and no trial is scheduled.

I keep telling you that you simply do not understand the tenets of the law and American jurisprudence.

Sure, I do. They're suspected. The question you keep ignoring is why you ignore evidence against suspected child molesters and abusers but assume the social workers are guilty of criminal actions without any evidence? Also why would you insinuate that former FLDS members are guilty of lying without any evidence.

Why the hypocrisy Jim?

Try to follow me on this one. I will type s-l-o-w-l-y.

If they are not innocent before they are ever arrested; before they are ever indicted; or before the trial commences they are ... ?????????? WHAT ?????????

Suspects.

And the courts, three of them now, have borne me out. They agree with me. They disagree with you.

What have they disagreed with me about Jim?

I didn't insinuate the former members are lying. What I said is that is always a possibility that is not outside of the realm of reason. Disgruntled people lie all of the time about former employers, authority figures, and former associates.

Suspects of crimes lie as well. What's your point? The questions once agains again. Why would you insinuate that victims are lying while proclaiming innocence for the suspects. Why not just wait and see.

Why would you proclaim social workers guilty of criminal actions to increase their budget without any evidence? Why the hypocrisy Jim?

Where's this vigilantism you accused me of?

Why for Jeffs would you stress alleged on 13 yr olds when 14 yr old molestation has already been proven? Is 13 where you personally draw the line?