Sickening

[jimpeel]

If you practice polygamy and live in a compound I gotta believe kids are getting fucked.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352682,00.html

CPS officials have conceded there is no evidence the youngest children were abused, and about 130 of the children are under 5. Teenage boys were not physically or sexually abused either, according to evidence presented in a custody hearing earlier last week, but more than two dozen teenage boys are also in state custody, now staying at a boys' ranch that might typically house troubled or abandoned teens.

Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children. It's not clear how many other adolescent girls may be among the children shipped to foster facilities.

So a full 130 kids have been declared unabused, two dozen teen boys have been declared unabused, only TWO of the teenaged girls, out of 462 children seized, are currently pregnant, and no more than 30 of the 462 seized children already have children of their own.

Sounds to me to be better stats than most high schools where the kids have multiple boyfriends and girlfriends and spend most of their day there. Sounds like polygamous dating at the high school compound to me.

Mus' be a who' lotta kid fuckin' a goin' on in them thar high skoos.

 

[spike]

Wow Jim, I'm getting the impression from you that you really wouldn't care if all these babies of children were fathered by old guy spiritual husbands.

Creepy.

 

[chcr]

TWO of the teenaged girls, out of 462 children seized, are currently pregnant

Well, that makes it all right then.

Sounds to me to be better stats than most high schools where the kids have multiple boyfriends and girlfriends and spend most of their day there

Which, of course, is exactly the same as having an allegedly adult authority figure tell you who to fuck.

 

[Gonz]

It's always good to see the First is alive & well.

These families, practicing their twisted form of religion, are following age old traditions. Traditions that have been abandoned by modern America. (thankfully). However, since these kids are not part of the modern culture (many or most have never seen TV or the internet) & they are doing as nature intended, we are looking at a culture clash. Should 14 year olds become wives & mothers? If these people were part of the larger community...no. However, seeing the evidence that this sect is self-sustaining, it lends creedence to their belief system. Wanna bet the number of crimes committed by these folks is nil. The burden on society is the same. Nature intended girls to become mothers. Our society puts undue burdens on us which changes those rules. These folks are a throwback to 18th century life.

Who's next, the Amish?
The Jews?
The Baptists?
You?

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

Have we all forgotten THIS?

Some of y'all talk a big game. Kill the pedophiles and kill 'em now. There is NO excuse for grown men preying on young girls. I remember us tarring and feathering some punk for claiming it in fact. Now we got a convicted sex offender who preys on minors...and some of you are jumping through your own assholes to defend him! Does the thought of hundreds of leettle girrrrrrls on the hoof just drive you past the point of consistency or what?

I don't care what his religion is. He could advocate worshipping a bobble-head doll of Johnny Carson for all I care. We got a fox in the henhouse, and some of y'all wanna build him a hammock.

Make up your mind. It's right, or it's wrong.

EDIT: Linkie no workie for me. It's post 14 of this very thread...

 

[Gonz]

link fixed

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

Gracias, senor.

 

[jimpeel]

Wow Jim, I'm getting the impression from you that you really wouldn't care if all these babies of children were fathered by old guy spiritual husbands.

Creepy.

As usual your feelings, somethings Liberals seem to use in place of God given common sense, are wrong. I care about the law and false accusations being used to foster criminal actions against a group, any group, of people. I sure wouldn't want you on my jury in a criminal case because you have already convicted these people. You are one of the "Let's vote guilty and get to lunch" types we all dread having in the jury room.

So you, I assume, are just peachy with the raid being perpetrated on a hoax?

You have no problem with someone sending the local gendarmarie after people because of the mental ramblings of the voices in their head?

You have no problem with the obvious bigotry of this woman they are investigating against Christian churches?

Would you be so cavalier if it were a Muslim church which was raided? You seem to come to their defense with dogged regularity.

 

[jimpeel]

Who's next, the Amish?
The Jews?
The Baptists?
You?

Certainly not the Muslims which practice the very same beliefs -- polygamous marriage and underage marriages to older men. Wouldn't want to offend them, now, would we? Christians, however? Who gives a fuck how badly we offend them. They're fair game and they won't come bomb or butcher you.

 

[jimpeel]

Have we all forgotten THIS?

Its starting to appear that the only link to this case, so far as Barlow is concerned, is the ravings of a mad woman in Colorado Springs who has a history of doing this very type of hoax. There is no evidence (remember that pesky part of the law?) that he was there or that he ever left AZ. But what are facts and evidence useful for in the face of a well structured lynching party?

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

Facts? You're right. His conviction for molesting kids is meaningless.

Evidence? We got knocked up adolescents. We got a convicted child molestor. We got Manson-like isolation, Koresh-like brainwashing, and we got Jim Jones-like secrecy. I'll take "Court Issued Search Warrants" for $1000, Alex.

Being a probation/parole officer, I know just a wee lil bit about how to read what ISN'T said. It's the basis of lawwer arguments in every courthouse in 'Merica.

I'll wager my next house payment right now that this sick fucker left the State of AZ without permission.

So you just trot y'self right on down there and buddy up with this creep. Moral support and all that. Hug him even. Bring the grandkids too. Put yer money where your mouth is.

I'll let ya go now so you can take that call from the ACLU. Wouldn't wanna keep them waiting.

 

[Inkara1]

Was the original call to authorities a hoax? It appears so. BUT... it doesn't sound to me like the Texas authorities invented this girl to call in order to get an excuse for a raid. That means they got a tip that they felt was credible at the time, and they were able to get a warrant from a judge. Although authorities didn't find the original caller, they did find evidence of crimes committed related to what the caller had said. In Texas, the age of consent is 17; in Arizona, it's 16 and in Utah, it's 16 for girls and 18 for boys (I mentioned Arizona and Utah because of the other FLDS area, which is in twin cities on the Arizona/Utah border). It appears girls younger than those ages have been having babies and have been "spiritually married" without being legally married.

Regardless of if the call was a hoax or not, if no crimes were being committed, then evidence of said crimes wouldn't have been found.

Now, it's time ot shoot down a few arguments.

So a full 130 kids have been declared unabused, two dozen teen boys have been declared unabused, only TWO of the teenaged girls, out of 462 children seized, are currently pregnant, and no more than 30 of the 462 seized children already have children of their own.

Sounds to me to be better stats than most high schools where the kids have multiple boyfriends and girlfriends and spend most of their day there. Sounds like polygamous dating at the high school compound to me.

Mus' be a who' lotta kid fuckin' a goin' on in them thar high skoos.

462 kids minus 130 under 5, minus 24 "unabused" teen boys, minus the two pregnant teens, minus the 30 that have kids already. That leaves 286 kids out of the original 462 that are questionable. Keep in mind the ages here range from 5 to 18. As most people know, kids do not reach puberty at age 5, or 6, or 7, or 8... most reach it at around age 11 or 12, some a bit earlier. But also, remember that girls are supposedly being married and fucked at puberty. We don't know how many of the 286 questionable kids ages 5-18 have reached puberty, and how many of them are boys and how many are girls. Also remember that the allegation is that young girls are marrying men that are much, much older... 30s, 40s, 50s. So of course underage boys aren't going to be having a lot of kids.

But let's do a few round numbers just to put it into easy-to-grasp terms. Admittedly, without knowing the ages and sexes of each kid, and knowing that puberty shows up at different times for different people, I'm having to make assumptions here. But if we can figure the average puberty age is about 11, that means six of the years 5-18 are prepubescent, and seven of the years are post-pubescent. That means 54 percent of the 286 kids that are questionable would have reached puberty... that's 154 kids. Then, if we figure that the split for boys and girls is around 50/50, that means there would be 77 girls that have reached puberty that don't have kids.

If we assume that 77 is in the ballpark, then add back the 30 teen girls that are known to already have kids, and the two that are known to be pregnant, that makes for 109 total girls, with 29.3 percent of them having at least one kid or one on the way. In Texas as a whole in 2004, the teen birth rate was 62.6 per 1,000... that's a percentage of 6.26 percent. So the teen birth rate for the compound right now is nearly five times the average for the state of Texas. Furthermore, there could be more kids in the compound that are pregnant and haven't found out yet. Also, pregnancy doesn't always happen the first time the kid has sex, meaning that just because there's no baby doesn't mean the law hasn't been broken. Plus, the high sex rate in public high schools doesn't mean it's legal, either. So when we look at it objectively, instead of with feelings, we see that the law is being broken and being broken often. We haven't even touched on how many girls are of legal age now that had kids when they were still minors.

As for the argument of this being a first amendment issue... I guess that means all the laws against polygamy are unconstitutional. So I guess I should see if I can marry 3 or 4 different women, from ages 12 and up, and then claim religion when the authorities show up. Hell, maybe I should find a religion that endorses gay marriage, then find a nice man to marry. After all, not letting me marry a man would be infringing on my right to practice my religion, right?

 

[Gonz]

Polygamy is illegal. Living with a harem isn't.

What is this "spiritual marriage" in which they speak? Is it a legal marriage?

I ask again, what evidence has been brought forth from the raid? It sound like beauracratic horseshit to me (catch a fish without a license & you can be jailed)

 

[SouthernN'Proud]

But what are facts and evidence useful for in the face of a well structured lynching party?

I ain't nothin' but a simple man
They call me a redneck I reckon that I am
But there's things going on
That make me mad down to the core.

I have to work like a dog to make ends meet
There's crooked politicians and crime in the street
And I'm madder'n hell and I ain't gonna take it no more.

We tell our kids to just say no
Then some panty waist judge lets a drug dealer go
Slaps him on the wrist and then he turns him back out on the town.

Now if I had my way with people sellin' dope
I'd take a big tall tree and a short piece of rope
I'd hang 'em up high and let 'em swing 'til the sun goes down

Well, you know what's wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bibles away
They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
The good book says it so I know it's the truth An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth
You better watch where you go and remember where you been
That's the way I see it I'm a Simple Man.

Now I'm the kinda man that'd not harm a mouse
But if I catch somebody breakin in my house
I've got twelve guage shotgun waiting on the other side

So don't go pushing me against my will
I don't want to have to fight you but I dern sure will
So if you don't want trouble then you'd better just pass me on by

As far as I'm concerned there ain't no excuse
For the raping and the killing and the child abuse
And I've got a way to put an end to all that mess

Just take them rascals out in the swamp
Put 'em on their knees and tie 'em to a stump
Let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest

You know what's wrong with the world today
People done gone and put their Bibles away
They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
The Good Book says it so I know it's the truth
An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth
You better watch where you go and remember where you been
That's the way I see it I'm a Simple Man

Period dot semicolon.

 

[spike]

Should 14 year olds become wives & mothers? If these people were part of the larger community...no. However, seeing the evidence that this sect is self-sustaining, it lends creedence to their belief system. Wanna bet the number of crimes committed by these folks is nil.

Old guys impregnating 14yr olds is actually a crime Gonz.

 

[spike]

As usual your feelings, somethings Liberals seem to use in place of God given common sense, are wrong.

Nope, my common sense tells me that old guys impregnating 14 year olds is wrong and illegal.

I care about the law and false accusations being used to foster criminal actions against a group, any group, of people. I sure wouldn't want you on my jury in a criminal case because you have already convicted these people. You are one of the "Let's vote guilty and get to lunch" types we all dread having in the jury room.

Wrong yet again Jim. I don't know who's guilty and who's innocent here but I think we ought to find out. You seem to already have declared them all innocent though.

You're not really interested in finding out the truth eh?

So you, I assume, are just peachy with the raid being perpetrated on a hoax?

That would be a stupid assumption.

You have no problem with someone sending the local gendarmarie after people because of the mental ramblings of the voices in their head?

You have no problem with the obvious bigotry of this woman they are investigating against Christian churches?

Would you be so cavalier if it were a Muslim church which was raided? You seem to come to their defense with dogged regularity.

More stupid assumptions. Mind sticking to the facts here Jim?

There is plenty of evidence of possible crimes being committed here. Why are you so disinterested in crimes against minors?

 

[spike]

462 kids minus 130 under 5, minus 24 "unabused" teen boys, minus the two pregnant teens, minus the 30 that have kids already. That leaves 286 kids out of the original 462 that are questionable. Keep in mind the ages here range from 5 to 18. As most people know, kids do not reach puberty at age 5, or 6, or 7, or 8... most reach it at around age 11 or 12, some a bit earlier. But also, remember that girls are supposedly being married and fucked at puberty. We don't know how many of the 286 questionable kids ages 5-18 have reached puberty, and how many of them are boys and how many are girls. Also remember that the allegation is that young girls are marrying men that are much, much older... 30s, 40s, 50s. So of course underage boys aren't going to be having a lot of kids.

But let's do a few round numbers just to put it into easy-to-grasp terms. Admittedly, without knowing the ages and sexes of each kid, and knowing that puberty shows up at different times for different people, I'm having to make assumptions here. But if we can figure the average puberty age is about 11, that means six of the years 5-18 are prepubescent, and seven of the years are post-pubescent. That means 54 percent of the 286 kids that are questionable would have reached puberty... that's 154 kids. Then, if we figure that the split for boys and girls is around 50/50, that means there would be 77 girls that have reached puberty that don't have kids.

If we assume that 77 is in the ballpark, then add back the 30 teen girls that are known to already have kids, and the two that are known to be pregnant, that makes for 109 total girls, with 29.3 percent of them having at least one kid or one on the way. In Texas as a whole in 2004, the teen birth rate was 62.6 per 1,000... that's a percentage of 6.26 percent. So the teen birth rate for the compound right now is nearly five times the average for the state of Texas. Furthermore, there could be more kids in the compound that are pregnant and haven't found out yet. Also, pregnancy doesn't always happen the first time the kid has sex, meaning that just because there's no baby doesn't mean the law hasn't been broken. Plus, the high sex rate in public high schools doesn't mean it's legal, either. So when we look at it objectively, instead of with feelings, we see that the law is being broken and being broken often. We haven't even touched on how many girls are of legal age now that had kids when they were still minors.

Nice analysis inkara.

 

[Gonz]

Old guys impregnating 14yr olds is actually a crime Gonz.

Accusations or evidence?

 

[spike]

Accusations or evidence?

A little DNA testing should help sort some of this out.

 

[Gonz]

Which, of course, comes from the unwilling or unable to defend themselves.

If there is evidence, throw the book at them. Too bad it looks more like another invasion of the politburo.