Smoking bans... your thoughts.

[CheeseRocket]

I saw the thread about smoking, and it made me think of the bar and in house bans going up around the nation. Has this had an effect on any of you?


It has on me, financially, but I can get into that after I see some of your replies.

 

[Spliffy]

Well im in the process of giving up but i can see the point of some bans. There should be a smoking area and a non smoking area. But then again if ya dont like the smoke then go somewhere else.

 

[Ms Ann Thrope]

There's a jazz club I used to frequent that I stopped going to when they went no-smoking a few years ago. There are other clubs that still allow smoking and that's where I spend my money.

I do feel that it should be the restaurant/bar owner's decision either way.

 

[Luis G]

Ban smoking in every public place.

Do it inside your car or inside your house.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Why should they do that Luis? After all, if there is a closed area for smokers, why should it be banned completely?

 

[Luis G]

Closed area?, I doubt any of those are hermetic enough to contain the pestilence of smoke.

 

[AlphaTroll]

Well, here we have closed off areas (they are closed with doors etc) with extractor fans or summin. So IMO they are good enough.

 

[markjs]

Last time this discussion turned into me arguing that many studies have been done that suggest second hand smoke is harmful and Gonz countering that one or two studies suggest no such causal relationship.

Bottom line is the preponderance of the evidence suggests second hand smoke bad for you on any number of levels.

Therefore as an ex smoker, I call for a ban on smoking in any public place, excepting outdoors. I further suggest that smoking in your own home should be illegal if you are subjecting any minor child to second hand smoke. It should be done outside period when non smokers enter the equation. Of course I don't suggest we go door to door checking to see if people smoke in front of their children, but say if it comes up some place like at an appointment at the pediatritian as an issue (ie things like asthma and the like), then severe fines are in order.

Further if you throw your butt on the ground, I'd like to see you fined for littering if you put it out and fined even more severely if you toss it out still smouldering.

The proceeds of all fines should fund tobbacco research and anti smoking educational programs

Now as for morons that sue big tobbacco for making them sick? These fools ought to be severly fined for wasting the courts time....Its been quite clear as long as people have smoked that it wasn't good for you.

 

[markjs]

On a note of interest I don't know where and I can't quote any sure source, but I know once I heard that some study suggested that smokers were less likely to develop altzheimers.

But then I just googled it and found another study says that's not true and still more saying smoking doubles the rate of dementia in altzheimers patients.....

Studies...Go figure!

 

[AlphaTroll]

On a note of interest I don't know where and I can't quote any sure source, but I know once I heard that some study suggested that smokers were less likely to develop altzheimers.

'Cos they always have to remember where they put their lighters, how many ciggies they have left, where they can get ciggies cheapest etc

 

[ris]

...
Further if you throw your butt on the ground, I'd like to see you fined for littering if you put it out and fined even more severely if you toss it out still smouldering.
...

carelesly discarded cigarette destroys 70% of national motorcycle museum
some pillock managed to wipe out irreplacable historic bikes worth about 8m quid this week through not taking care with their discarded cigarette. the only upside is that it destroyed a deeply ugly building.

 

[Hthrly]

Ok... my view on the ban.. (as I screw a Marlboro between my lips..)

Health.

The reason behind the ban, as always stated, is health. Smoking is bad for you, so being in a smoke filled room should by all means be bad for you. I don't deny that it is, but I will point out that there is no proof that 2nd hand smoke is bad. Just an FYI. So platforming on health, they decided to ban smoking in public places in Delaware, for the employees sake. The notion that 77% of De is non smoking.

My rebuttle: This is not a health issue. This is a comfort issue.. if smoking was such a health issue smoking itself would be illegal. But it's not. Delaware has loop holes in the law that allow for smoking in firehalls and in fund raising events. So tell me.. is the health of those persons less important than the rest of the population? Why are bills being submitted to allow for 25% smoking slots at the local casino? ($33 million state revenue..)

No one walks into a smokey environment and say "oh! The second hand smoke!!" They cry "Oh!! I hate that smell!". So in all honesty, it's the stink. The first complaint I always hear is "I hate the way my clothes smell in the morning". So... it would be OK is there was a smokeless cigg that produced the same stank? No... there'd be a low against it.

The polling popluation = Propaganda.

As I stated earlier, 77% of Delaware was non smoking, and supported the ban. A perfect example of the polling, Dear Old Mum. She doesn't smoke, and hates being in a resturant filled with smoke. She loves the ban. Now... here's the rub. Mom only eat's out 2X a year on average. "So what?" you may ask. Fair enough... lets say 77% of the population doesn't bowl, and in a phone survey you talk of the hearing damage cause by loud bowling alleys. Of course people don't want hearing damage to effect them, so lets close down the bowling alleys! not fair to the 23% who do bowl.. is it?

So with that, lets look at a bar. A typical resturant/bar (*note.. I have worked in 2 bars that promote themselves as resturants, then around 10ish we stop serving dinner, and the bar crowd packs the house) has people who come in for dinner, and people who come in to drink. the typical dinner crowd (51%+) is a casual diner, and eats out about 1 time a month. Now.. the average bar patron (51%+) goes out 3-5 nights a week.

By my own opinion, a majority of bar patrons smoke. This is open for debate, but I make this call based of of years of drinking, and working in bar environments. Now.. should the bar patrons be adjusted to suit the needs of resturant patrons?

*Part 1. it's late... I am tired. Will finish later. Then I will address any retorts that may be posted.

For part 2:
Financial aspect.
Patron's current options.
Options not considered to benefit all.

-Rick

 

[markjs]

Ok... my view on the ban.. (as I screw a Marlboro between my lips..)

Health.

The reason behind the ban, as always stated, is health. Smoking is bad for you, so being in a smoke filled room should by all means be bad for you. I don't deny that it is, but I will point out that there is no proof that 2nd hand smoke is bad. Just an FYI. So platforming on health, they decided to ban smoking in public places in Delaware, for the employees sake. The notion that 77% of De is non smoking.

My rebuttle: This is not a health issue. This is a comfort issue.. if smoking was such a health issue smoking itself would be illegal. But it's not. Delaware has loop holes in the law that allow for smoking in firehalls and in fund raising events. So tell me.. is the health of those persons less important than the rest of the population? Why are bills being submitted to allow for 25% smoking slots at the local casino? ($33 million state revenue..)

No one walks into a smokey environment and say "oh! The second hand smoke!!" They cry "Oh!! I hate that smell!". So in all honesty, it's the stink. The first complaint I always hear is "I hate the way my clothes smell in the morning". So... it would be OK is there was a smokeless cigg that produced the same stank? No... there'd be a low against it.

The polling popluation = Propaganda.

As I stated earlier, 77% of Delaware was non smoking, and supported the ban. A perfect example of the polling, Dear Old Mum. She doesn't smoke, and hates being in a resturant filled with smoke. She loves the ban. Now... here's the rub. Mom only eat's out 2X a year on average. "So what?" you may ask. Fair enough... lets say 77% of the population doesn't bowl, and in a phone survey you talk of the hearing damage cause by loud bowling alleys. Of course people don't want hearing damage to effect them, so lets close down the bowling alleys! not fair to the 23% who do bowl.. is it?

So with that, lets look at a bar. A typical resturant/bar (*note.. I have worked in 2 bars that promote themselves as resturants, then around 10ish we stop serving dinner, and the bar crowd packs the house) has people who come in for dinner, and people who come in to drink. the typical dinner crowd (51%+) is a casual diner, and eats out about 1 time a month. Now.. the average bar patron (51%+) goes out 3-5 nights a week.

By my own opinion, a majority of bar patrons smoke. This is open for debate, but I make this call based of of years of drinking, and working in bar environments. Now.. should the bar patrons be adjusted to suit the needs of resturant patrons?

*Part 1. it's late... I am tired. Will finish later. Then I will address any retorts that may be posted.

For part 2:
Financial aspect.
Patron's current options.
Options not considered to benefit all.

-Rick

I'll quote myself:

Bottom line is the preponderance of the evidence suggests second hand smoke bad for you on any number of levels.

 

[Dave]

if smoking was such a health issue smoking itself would be illegal.

two words.....tobacco lobby

until all the areas that rely on tobacco as the major source of income find another lucrative cash crop, it will never be illegal.

 

[Kawaii]

No smoking in public places. If you want to fuck your own health up, don't bring others down with you.

Those are my 2 cents.

 

[Oz]

As a smoker myself.

I don't really mind that smoking is being slowly banned from most public places. If you are so addicted to nicotine that you can't wait the length of a movie, time spent eating in a restaurant or for the bus to reach it's destination then you should really think about quitting.

Pubs and bars are now slowly being split into totally smoking or totally non-smoking establishments........so that removes that problem.

So yeah, as a smoker I don't see the big deal at all

 

[CheeseRocket]

PART II -

Current Patron Options

Living in Delaware, I am approxamately 5 minutes from 3 startes. Go east, I am in NJ. North - PA. West- MD. None of which have an indoor smoking ban. What does this mean? This means smokers can travel the 5 minutes and get a beer in another state, in a bar that welcomes them. Now.. since the majority of drinkers are smokers, and "a crowd loves a crowd", the Non smokers follow them. Also.. just a side note, last call in De is 1 AM, MD, PA and NJ - 2AM. Not very healthy for the De economy, is it?

Finacial implications

Lets start with the Delaware slots. $33 Mil in state revenue. Noy down over 25%. (AC is 1 1/2 hours away, up 18% in bussiness since the smoking ban took place). Again there's a majority of casino patrons who smoke. Close to mirrioring the Delaware stats, approx 77%. Staggering...

Lets look at this on a more local scale. My friend Brian is the proprieter of a local bar. (The owner died and left it to his brother, who lives in Cali, and gave brian control for now). This bar, is what we would call a DIVE. It caters to construction workers, bikers, and mostly, the employees of the local up scale brew pub who go there after thier shift. That's how I started going there, after my shifts at Stewarts Brewing. So as explained, THIS IS A BAR. It's a hole in the wall with a few beer taps where 98% of the clientel smokes. Did the state care? No. This took 50% of brians customers away. Brian finally said Fuck it.. and he allowed smoking in the bar. Until the ABC found out. Sales went up, and are now back down.

Even more locally... Myself. I work Mon-Friday for Discover Card, and Friday Saturday and Sunday I now work at an irish pub in the city. Prior to the ban, an average Saturday night was about $200 to $250 in tips. Since, it's about $80 - $150. Why? Here's why -

1. Lack of traffic. People don't come in to DE because the crowds left.
2. Lack of staying power - When people did come in, a typical table for me was 4 or 5 bartenders tieing one off. $300 check, $100 tip. Not any more. They come in.. have a beer, go out to smoke, and go to other bars. So it's $20 here.. $30 there.. etc.
3. Non smokers don't tip as well as smokers. Fact. Ask any waiter/waitress who tips better.

Options not considered

Most smokers know that smoking isn't a right. We also know that people don't like to eat when there is smoking. So a smoking ban in a resturant makes sence. But what about in a bar? No. What about segregation? A seperate smoking bar and non smoking, split by sealed doors? No. This wouldn't work because the Non smokers would want to be on the smoking side (where the cool people are) and that would render the seperation obsolete.
1.Why not set a time for smoking? 10PM. No smoking before 10. This gives both sides the chance to get what they want. Dinner from 7-10, drinking from 10-1.
2. Let the owners decided. When some opens a club or bar, why not let that owner decide who he wants to cater to. A sign on the front door.. SMOKING INSIDE should be enough to ward off complaints. If you want to go in... you know what your in for.

Alright... I guess that's all I can think of.

Flame away.

 

[MuFu]

How are 12 year-olds going to look cool if they ban smoking?

 

[Oz]

How are 12 year-olds going to look cool if they ban smoking?

I guess they'll just have to buy more of those plastic bottles of cider.......or there is always cooking sherry for the ultimate "cool"

 

[CheeseRocket]

I guess they'll just have to buy more of those plastic bottles of cider.......or there is always cooking sherry for the ultimate "cool"

Heh.. on sunday morning I had a table of like 7 people. This one lady orders the "Build your own Bloody May". I bring her the blass of rocks ond vodka. A few minutes later the owner asked me (jokingly) what am trying to pull. Look up, and her 12 year old son is at the bloody mary bar pouring stuff into the glass.

That would have looked great if ATF had walked in.