The argument for VEGETARIANISM
- Thread starter MrBishop
- Start date
Professur
Well-Known Member
MrBishop said:
Y'know, you make me laugh. I'm not doing anything. They're doing it to themselves. Here's an idea. People are starving all around you. Let's go rape a 12 year old girl and add a few more mouths.
And as for the gov't (which seems to be all you're responding to), the country that everyone's whining at to step in and feed these poor pathetic losers did just what I suggested. The pre-US had an oppressive gov't. They were heavily taxed, while they hard work went to feed the fat cats. What did they do? Out gunned. Out Teched. Out just about everythinged. They took on and overthrew that gov't. Look where they are now.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Professur said:
I'm not trying to make you laugh Prof...just look beyond yourself.
That's the point BTW...you're not doing anything. Not willing to do anything that involves stepping beyond your own backyard. Perfect "me, me, me" mentality.
Raping 12 year olds?...You first.
Professur said:
They've become what they overthrew. Oppressive gvt's who overtax their people and sit like literally-fat cats. In the meanwhile, they're being passed by, slowly but surely. Time to overthrow teh US gvt?
Thulsa Doom
New Member
Professur said:
news flash: AIDS KILLS people. It doesnt increase your population. Which is why populations of most African countries are supposed to DROP by some 20% over the next 50 years. This isnt over population. This is simply dieing in a place with limited resources and few if any choices while you and I sit on our fat lazy asses eating fat and sugar and oil by the trough because its in abundance here and shaking our heads in disgust because those stupid africans get AIDS and die miserably. whats wrong with them?
As to your rape comments did you know the number one belief among many africans is that the only way to cure AIDS is to have sex with a virgin? This accounts for your spike in rapes. They truly believe they are doing whats necessary to cure themselves of this dreaded disease that the medical community cant seem to do anything about. Their local witch doctors insist on this and who are you going to trust but your local witch doctor when you live hundreds of miles from the nearest television. THIS is why EDUCATION is the best export (in addition to food and medicine of course) we high and mighty snobby countries can give third world countries so that superstitions and misbeliefs dont make things 1000 times worse.
As for starving people around the world well unfortunately its not that simple. its not simply a matter of enough food for everyone. its distribution and transportation thats the real issue. not to mention red tape. and of course greed. and hate. and apathy as we can see...
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Thulsa Doom said:
It's a fairly large issue when there's not enough viable soil to grow your own food, which is often the case in third-world countries. North America, rich in land to grow veggies, fruits, wheet etc, wastes most of it's land on raising cattle. Sure, getting the food there and making sure that it gets to the right people is a big problem...and it could probably be paid for by these countries if they weren't ruled by despots, but until then...it's charity. We pay to ship it there and protect it until it gets to the starving people, we use part of our land to grow these crops...but we don't want to grow too many crops because it drives the market-price down and people lose money. Farmers lose money, and we have to save our farmers.
If we could seperate chariteable crops from market-crops, then this issue might dissapear, but that's a lot to ask for. As is paying for the shipping and handling of millions of tons of food. I can't see this happening in todays mostly apathetic society and mostly capitalistic political arena.
Camelyn
New Member
Love ya Bish *smooches*
But...
When I see a spew of statistics like those listed, specifically intended to overwhelm more with sheer volume than value , I can't help but find my reasonable brain turning off, and my stubborn argumentative brain powering right up. There is a supporting statistic out there for just about ANY argument you can think of. Statistics are the INTERPRETAION of data, and because of this, statistics are notoriously subjective.
IMO, some points are valid, some aren't. Don't try to sell me on vegetarianism by talking about starving children in Africa. I find that preachy, condescending, and frankly offensive. The imbalance in the distribution of food availability world-wide has more to do with environmental, political and economic issues that whether or not I choose to eat prime rib 7 days a week.
A - Is there waste in North America? Hell yeah! Should we give a crap? Hell yeah again. It would require major economic and political changes, but it ain't impossible.
B - Is meat bad for you? Depends on who you ask. There are WAY too many variables. Would it hurt to cut back a bit and eat more veggies. Naw, roughage is a good thing.
Placing point A and point B into an equation that equals an end to world hunger....sorry, you'll have to show me the math.
But...
When I see a spew of statistics like those listed, specifically intended to overwhelm more with sheer volume than value , I can't help but find my reasonable brain turning off, and my stubborn argumentative brain powering right up. There is a supporting statistic out there for just about ANY argument you can think of. Statistics are the INTERPRETAION of data, and because of this, statistics are notoriously subjective.
IMO, some points are valid, some aren't. Don't try to sell me on vegetarianism by talking about starving children in Africa. I find that preachy, condescending, and frankly offensive. The imbalance in the distribution of food availability world-wide has more to do with environmental, political and economic issues that whether or not I choose to eat prime rib 7 days a week.
A - Is there waste in North America? Hell yeah! Should we give a crap? Hell yeah again. It would require major economic and political changes, but it ain't impossible.
B - Is meat bad for you? Depends on who you ask. There are WAY too many variables. Would it hurt to cut back a bit and eat more veggies. Naw, roughage is a good thing.
Placing point A and point B into an equation that equals an end to world hunger....sorry, you'll have to show me the math.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Camelyn said:
Love ya too I didn't write the stats. I'm not even trying to convince people to become veggie-munchers..frankly, that's the OT in OTC talking more than anything. This thread was actually meant to focus on how vegetarianism can help save the planet..someone asked why.
The main focus was meant to have been the waste of water, the increase in greenhouse gasses through the raising of cattle etc, and the massive clearcutting needed to house cattle and pigs etc..
The whole 'feed the world' thing was Prof's idea. He yanked that one statistic out of my thread-rant and ran with it.
Camelyn
New Member
MrBishop said:
I'm sorry, but every time I read a scientific paper on methane emissions from the raising of livestock, or read a quote like yours here, despite the totally serious and worthy nature of the discussion......
I always think of acres and acres of farting cows.
I'm such a bad lady....
Ms Ann Thrope
New Member
Camelyn said:
sounds like Wisconsin.... bucolic flatulence....
BeardofPants
New Member
Easy: Big Brains = meat. That is to say, big brains need more energy, hence the need for meat (and why all Greater Apes are omnivorous). Please note the statement "Not ALL" and "primarily". Certainly, Homo erectus was an omnivore, however, erectus was more than likely a scavenger, and it wasn't until the advent of sapiens, that you have concerted efforts to hunt meat. The genus austrolopithecines were highly specialised frugivores, subsisting primarily on grains, and such, which was why they had such specialised molars. The reason we have a chin, as such, is because of that reduction in tooth size, tracking the dietary change from nuts, grains, and the odd bug, to a more seasoned hunters diet.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
What made the sapiens more successful and led to a larger brain wasn't the inclusion of meat to their diet, but the increase of regular sources of food to it. Going from hunter-gatherer to a farming/hunter/gatherer increased the amount of nutrients needed to maintain a larger brain.
Needed to maintain a healthy brain:
Fatty Acids - found in nuts and seeds, seaweed, Omega-3 (in fish), Avocados, Coconut and Olive Oil. Meats, even when free-range, provide a certain amount of useful fatty acids...BUT, not found in mass-produced meats. The fatty acids that you need aren't there in sufficient numbers because of the use of steroids etc. in assisting the animals to grow larger/faster. What you get is more fat, but less fatty acids in that fat. Stuff that sticks to your belly, but not in your brain.
Amino Acids - come from a breakdown of proteins. Yes, you can find these in meat, but the somatotropin, beta-adrenergic agonists, and anabolic steroids used in the mass production of beef and chicken reduce the amount of useable protein and the valuable Amino acids taken from them. You have to eat more meat to get those valuable proteins now, more then in the good ol' days of hunting for your supper. In addition, those animals don't have a high vitamin count themselves, and precious little to pass onto you when you eat that burger. You can get more out of dried beans (legumes), green leafy vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and seeds.
Glucose: - You need glucose and it's important to eat it often enough. Glucose is pure brain-food! You need to eat about every 5 hours or so (most people don't but that's OK...we just eat more). This includes snacks, not whole meals btw. Food with high glycemic levels include starchy vegetables such as corn, potatoes, winter squash, and cooked or juiced carrots and beets. Whole grains and whole grain breads, cereals, and crackers are also healthy high-glycemic foods. These are carbs! So, if you're on an Atkins diet...you aren't eating these...right? For those who aren't on an Atkins diet...combine them with proteins (even meat proteins) to help reduce that blood-sugar spike. Have an egg with that toast. Eat meat and potatoes.
Combining the two will help keep you slimmer than just avoiding the one.
Nutrients: - aka vitamins and minerals. Great for the body as is, and as antioxidants. Found in green leafy veggies and fruits. Found less so in produced meats.
The moral of this story. Yes...meat WAS good brain food, but it was never the be-all and end-all of brain health, and it certainly isn't now.
Needed to maintain a healthy brain:
Fatty Acids - found in nuts and seeds, seaweed, Omega-3 (in fish), Avocados, Coconut and Olive Oil. Meats, even when free-range, provide a certain amount of useful fatty acids...BUT, not found in mass-produced meats. The fatty acids that you need aren't there in sufficient numbers because of the use of steroids etc. in assisting the animals to grow larger/faster. What you get is more fat, but less fatty acids in that fat. Stuff that sticks to your belly, but not in your brain.
Amino Acids - come from a breakdown of proteins. Yes, you can find these in meat, but the somatotropin, beta-adrenergic agonists, and anabolic steroids used in the mass production of beef and chicken reduce the amount of useable protein and the valuable Amino acids taken from them. You have to eat more meat to get those valuable proteins now, more then in the good ol' days of hunting for your supper. In addition, those animals don't have a high vitamin count themselves, and precious little to pass onto you when you eat that burger. You can get more out of dried beans (legumes), green leafy vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and seeds.
Glucose: - You need glucose and it's important to eat it often enough. Glucose is pure brain-food! You need to eat about every 5 hours or so (most people don't but that's OK...we just eat more). This includes snacks, not whole meals btw. Food with high glycemic levels include starchy vegetables such as corn, potatoes, winter squash, and cooked or juiced carrots and beets. Whole grains and whole grain breads, cereals, and crackers are also healthy high-glycemic foods. These are carbs! So, if you're on an Atkins diet...you aren't eating these...right? For those who aren't on an Atkins diet...combine them with proteins (even meat proteins) to help reduce that blood-sugar spike. Have an egg with that toast. Eat meat and potatoes.
Combining the two will help keep you slimmer than just avoiding the one.
Nutrients: - aka vitamins and minerals. Great for the body as is, and as antioxidants. Found in green leafy veggies and fruits. Found less so in produced meats.
The moral of this story. Yes...meat WAS good brain food, but it was never the be-all and end-all of brain health, and it certainly isn't now.