The "Mother" of all legal defences

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Imagine this: A Mother of triplets "Temporarily loses it" and flings one of her 3 month old triplets into a bassinett so hard that it suffers a fractured skull and dies. She waits for several hours before calling 9-1-1 for help after the fact.

Now...imagine if it was the father that did the exact same actions.

All things being equal under the law..the parent in question would go to jail for a VERY long time and certainly not get to see his/her remaining children again.

Unfortunately, the law doesn't work that way. She had, after all, the Mother of all defenses.

WINNIPEG — Describing her as a good mother who "momentarily lost it," a judge has given a Winnipeg woman who killed one of her infant triplets an 18-month conditional sentence.

The Manitoba judge went even further Wednesday, recommending that Michelle Camire's three other young children be quickly returned to her care.

Camire, 27, was found guilty of manslaughter earlier this year after a jury trial for the October 2004 death of her child.

Queen's Bench Justice Deborah McCawley described Camire as an otherwise loving, caring mother and rejected the Crown's request for a 30-month prison term, saying that would only undo all the positive steps Camire has taken since her arrest.

Prosecutor Brian Bell had urged the judge to make a "strong and firm response" to the fact Camire violated her position of trust by killing a vulnerable child.

Three-month-old Michael Helgason suffered a fractured skull and severe brain injury after being thrown into his bed by Camire. She has always claimed the death was a tragic accident, not a criminal act.

Her lawyer argued at trial that she acted like any other frustrated, sleep-deprived parent when she threw Michael down.

"Unless you've been in a similar circumstance . . . it may be difficult to appreciate what she was feeling," Rod Brecht said during closing arguments. "Throwing Michael into a padded bassinet was never meant to be an assault on him. Many loving and caring parents may throw their children into a crib."

McCawley said Camire will "never cross that line again" and is clearly remorseful for her actions. She noted Camire keeps an urn containing her dead son's ashes, along with numerous pictures of him, in her home to serve as a constant reminder of what she did.

Camire has no prior criminal record, and she does have steady employment and a long-term, stable relationship.

Brecht said his client wants to resume parenting.

McCawley threw her support behind that plan, saying, "family reunification should be proceeded with as expeditiously as possible."

The case against Camire has sparked vigorous local debate and saw two prior trials in 2007 and 2008 end with jurors unable to reach a unanimous verdict.

Bell told jurors there was no doubt Camire was guilty, pointing to Camire's frantic 911 call after finding her son wasn't breathing.

"My three-month-old baby, I've killed him. I was tired and frustrated earlier, and I slammed him down when I put him down . . . Oh my God, what has mommy done? I'm going to go to jail, aren't I?" she said in the recorded call.

The operator began instructing Camire on how to perform cardiopulmonary resuscitation. Camire wept, repeatedly asking how could she do such a thing to her baby. "He's gone, he's gone, I know he's gone," she said.

Camire also told police she knew what she did "was wrong" but couldn't stop herself in time.

Camire was receiving Child and Family Services respite help in her home for up to 57 hours a week. Staff was not present at the time of the incident. Camire was also raising a 17-month-old girl.

CFS first became involved with Camire and her family in June 2004 after a social worker at Winnipeg's St. Boniface General Hospital notified them about the impending birth of triplets.

Camire's sentence conditions include a nightly curfew of 8 p.m. to 7 a.m., abstaining from alcohol and attending all recommended programming and treatment. She has already taken courses for parenting and anger management, court was told.
Link

Father of a child: Potential life in prison and loss of custody of all children
Mother of a child: 18 months slap on the wrist, nightly curfew and gets all remaining children back.
:banghead:
 
Female judge. Us men "can't possibly understand"

At least she didn't use the excuse that it was because she was on the rag at the time.



Honey .. want to go for a drive?
 
I'll see your conditional 18 month sentence and raise you an infanticide.

SOURCE

April 30, 2009
Texas bill would decriminalize infanticide

jessica ferrar pp award.jpg

Democrat pro-abortion Catholic state Rep. Jessica Ferrar has quite a resumé. There she is pictured right holding a Planned Parenthood Public Affairs Award she received last year "for her work on reproductive health issues," according to her website.

Ferrar opposes a bill currently before the legislature that would mandate abortionists offer mothers the option of viewing an ultrasound of their baby. She currently is sponsoring a bill that would force Catholic hospitals to dispense the morning-after pill. And Ferrar maintains a 100% approval rating from NARAL.

But disregard for prenatal life isn't enough for Ferrar, who is also sponsoring the first legislation of its kind in the nation, known as "The Infanticide Bill," HB 3318....

The Infanticide Bill would decriminalize infanticide of babies under 1 year old from being a capital murder offense, punishable by life in prison or the death penalty, to 180 days to 2 years in jail and a fine not to exceed $10k, for mothers found to be suffering, in the court's opinion, severe post-partum depression.

A defendent would be eligible for this sentence if her "judgment was impaired as a result of the effects of giving birth or the effects of lactation following birth," wrote Ferrar in her legislative analysis.


While I empathize for mothers suffering this malady, it does not extend to dehumanizing their babies so killing them is any less heinous in the eyes of the court than killing older children.

After all, depression extends throughout the life spectrum. Why should infanticide be set apart as a more tolerated crime?

Obviously, because of Ferrar's pro-abortion proclivities and the company she keeps, this is a veiled attempt to portray pregnancy as an illness, to provide a loophole for mothers committing 4th trimester abortions (postnatal murder), and to blur the line between abortion and infanticide.
 
And then there's "bioethicist" Peter Singer who believes that you should be allowed to kill your child up to one year old.

SOURCE

Taking Life: Humans

Peter Singer

Excerpted from Practical Ethics, 2nd edition, Cambridge, 1993, pp. 175-217​

In dealing with an objection to the view of abortion presented in Chapter 6, we have already looked beyond abortion to infanticide. In so doing we will have confirmed the suspicion of supporters of the sanctity of human life that once abortion is accepted, euthanasia lurks around the next comer - and for them, euthanasia is an unequivocal evil. It has, they point out, been rejected by doctors since the fifth century B.C., when physicians first took the Oath of Hippocrates and swore 'to give no deadly medicine to anyone if asked, nor suggest any such counsel'. Moreover, they argue, the Nazi extermination programme is a recent and terrible example of what can happen once we give the state the power to MI innocent human beings.

I do not deny that if one accepts abortion on the grounds provided in Chapter 6, the case for killing other human beings, in certain circumstances, is strong. As I shall try to show in this chapter, however, this is not something to be regarded with horror, and the use of the Nazi analogy is utterly misleading. On the contrary, once we abandon those doctrines about the sanctity of human life that - as we saw in Chapter 4 - collapse as soon as they are questioned, it is the refusal to accept killing that, in some cases, is horrific.

'Euthanasia' means, according to the dictionary, 'a gentle and easy death', but it is now used to refer to the killing of those who are incurably ill and in great pain or distress, for the sake of those killed, and in order to spare them further suffering or distress. This is the main topic of this chapter. I shall also consider, however, some cases in which, though killing is not contrary to the wishes of the human who is killed, it is also not carried out specifically for the sake of that being. As we shall see, some cases involving newborn infants fall into this category. Such cases may not be 'euthanasia' within the strict meaning of the term, but they can usefully be included within the same general discussion, as long as we are clear about the relevant differences.

Within the usual definition of euthanasia there are three different types, each of which raises distinctive ethical issues. it will help our discussion if we begin by setting out this threefold distinction and then assess the justifiability of each type.

...

JUSTIFYING INFANTICIDE AND NON-VOLUNTARY EUTHANASIA

As we have seen, euthanasia is non-voluntary when the subject has never had the capacity to choose to live or die. This is the situation of the severely disabled infant or the older human being who has been profoundly intellectually disabled since birth. Euthanasia or other forms of killing are also non- voluntary when the subject is not now but once was capable of making the crucial choice, and did not then express any preference relevant to her present condition.

The case of someone who has never been capable of choosing to live or die is a little more straightforward than that of a person who had, but has now lost, the capacity to make such a decision. We shall, once again, separate the two cases and take the more straightforward one first. For simplicity, I shall concentrate on infants, although everything I say about them would apply to older children or adults whose mental age is and has always been that of an infant.

Life and Death Decisions for Disabled Infants

If we were to approach the issue of life or death for a seriously disabled human infant without any prior discussion of the ethics of killing in general, we might be unable to resolve the conflict between the widely accepted obligation to protect the sanctity of human life, and the goal of reducing suffering. Some say that such decisions are 'subjective', or that life and death questions must be left to God and Nature. Our previous discussions have, however, prepared the ground, and the principles established and applied in the preceding three chapters make the issue much less baffling than most take it to be.

In Chapter 4 we saw that the fact that a being is a human being, in the sense of a member of the species Homo sapiens, is not relevant to the wrongness of killing it; it is, rather, characteristics like rationality, autonomy, and self-consciousness that make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings, or any other self-conscious beings. This conclusion is not limited to infants who, because of irreversible intellectual disabilities, will never be rational, self-conscious beings. We saw in our discussion of abortion that the potential of a fetus to become a rational, self-conscious being cannot count against killing it at a stage when it lacks these characteristics - not, that is, unless we are also prepared to count the value of rational self-conscious life as a reason against contraception and celibacy. No infant - disabled or not - has as strong a claim to life as beings capable of seeing themselves as distinct entities, existing over time.

The difference between killing disabled and normal infants lies not in any supposed right to life that the latter has and the former lacks, but in other considerations about killing. Most obviously there is the difference that often exists in the attitudes of the parents. The birth of a child is usually a happy event for the parents. They have, nowadays, often planned for the child. The mother has carried it for nine months. From birth, a natural affection begins to bind the parents to it. So one important reason why it is normally a terrible thing to kill an infant is the effect the killing will have on its parents.

It is different when the infant is born with a serious disability. Birth abnormalities vary, of course. Some are trivial and have little effect on the child or its parents; but others turn the normally joyful event of birth into a threat to the happiness of the parents, and any other children they may have.

[more]
 
And if Peter Singer isn't enough, we have this guy, another "bioethicist", who thinks you should be allowed to kill your child at any age.

SOURCE (Now archived)

Government adviser: killing children with defects acceptable

NICHOLAS CHRISTIAN

A GOVERNMENT adviser on genetics has sparked fury by suggesting it might be acceptable to destroy children with "defects" soon after they are born.

John Harris, a member of the Human Genetics Commission, told a meeting at Westminster he did not see any distinction between aborting a fully grown unborn baby at 40 weeks and killing a child after it had been born.

Harris, who is a professor of bioethics at Manchester University, would not be drawn on which defects or problems might be used as grounds for ending a baby's life, or how old a child might be while it could still be destroyed.

Harris was reported to have said that he did not believe that killing a child was always inexcusable.

In addition, it was claimed that he did not believe that there was any "moral change" that occurred between when the baby was in the womb and when it had been brought into the world.

He did not say how old a child might be while it could still be destroyed.

Harris, who also gives advice to doctors as a member of the ethics committee of the British Medical Association (BMA), is understood to have argued that there was no moral distinction between aborting a foetus found by tests to have defects and disposing of a child where the parents discovered the problems at birth.

The words drew a furious response from anti-abortion campaigners. The Pro-Life lobby group, who had members present at the meeting, noted what Harris had said and condemned his words.

Julia Millington, the group's spokeswoman, said: "It is frightening to think that university students are being educated by somebody who endorses the killing of new-born babies, and equally worrying to discover that such a person is the establishment's "preferred" bioethicist."

However, Michael Wilkes, the chairman of the BMA's ethics committee, claimed that Harris was simply trying to encourage debate and consistent thinking.

He said: "There are many who might concur that there is no difference between a full-term foetus and a new-born baby, although the majority would see there is a substantial difference. Abortion is legal, but termination after birth is killing."

In the past, Harris has spoken of the need to allow people to buy and sell human organs as a means of increasing supplies for transplant operations.

He also recently expressed support for the sex selection of babies for social reasons.

He said: "If it isn't wrong to wish for a bonny bouncing baby girl, why would it be wrong to make use of technology to play fairy godmother?"
 
you should be able to kill your kids at any age, even once they're adults

as my mamma used to say when i was a bad boy and stayed at work late, missing dinner - "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out"
 
Damn, I had just been thinking the other day that there were no nutcases anymore and then it turns out there are. Just goes to show you....??
 
Damn, I had just been thinking the other day that there were no nutcases anymore and then it turns out there are. Just goes to show you....??

I'd agree, except that these two nutcases hold professorships and teach in universities, and hold (or have held) positions where they're in an advisory position to their respective gov'ts. That raises the 'alarm level' up a few bars. After all .... someone gave them those advisory positions. That means they're not alone.
 
Being qualified to teach or advise on a subject doesn't require people agree with every opinion you have.
 
In your world you must agree with every opinion of a Professor in order for them to be qualified to teach?
 
"Decriminalize" isn't the right word for the Texas bill. The sentence would be rolled back but it would still be a crime.
 
Pot in California is "decriminalized". A $25 fine for personal possesion. It's still a crime though (misdemeanor)
 
It's only deciminalized for medicinal purposes. Simple possession without a prescription is still a crime.
 
???

When we were there, it was a "traffic ticket" offense, for a small amount.

Medical pot was made legal by the voters after we left.

Did they change the old law?
 
On the one hand: post postpartum depression is a real chemical imbalance and serious. We only heard about this one because the baby suffered the consequence. The ones we don't hear about are the ones where the new mom isn't showering, eating, can't get out of bed, possibly offs herself. Those situations are "unfortunate". But it IS a serious condition and it is often overlooked.

On the other hand: penalties should be handed out for manslaughter (that's what I'd call it, anyway). Life? Death penalty? Probably not, but she should at least be put away in a mental institute for a few years at least.
 
On the one hand: post postpartum depression is a real chemical imbalance and serious. We only heard about this one because the baby suffered the consequence. The ones we don't hear about are the ones where the new mom isn't showering, eating, can't get out of bed, possibly offs herself. Those situations are "unfortunate". But it IS a serious condition and it is often overlooked.

On the other hand: penalties should be handed out for manslaughter (that's what I'd call it, anyway). Life? Death penalty? Probably not, but she should at least be put away in a mental institute for a few years at least.

Now here you go again injecting sense and logic into the conversation! Is is not apparent to you that nobody around here is even remotely interested in sense and logic?!?

:tomato:
 
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